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Reason, Religion, Magic, Setianism

Daelach

Setian
I'd like to address some points and have a kind of "open discussion". Means, I'm not asking questions to be answered, it's just the broad overall topic I've been occupied with over the last months. I'll try to keep it short, though I could without doubt elaborate much deeper, but who would read it then? So, just feel free to add in your thoughts.

Reason tells us why something happens. It gives us causalities, i.e. it answers why-questions. What it can't give is meaning. Hard-core materialists consequently state that there is no meaning at all, that we're living in a cold, meaningless world of matter.

Magic says that it isn't only matter. Thought is important, too. Science is better at manipulating matter and energy, that's why we have this internet forum instead of telepathy; but the world isn't just mindless matter where the formulas for mindless matter apply because we also have consciousness. Thus, magic provides means that can complement science. What magic doesn't provide, either, is meaning - magic answers how-questions.

Meaning, actually, is the realm of relegion. This touches the realm of values, only poorly governed by the secular offshoot of religion, i.e. philosophy. Philosophy by and large shows up when religion has created the cultural ground and then secularises the whole thing. That is why philosophy has never founded a culture, as religion does, and why philosophy is the servenat of theology, as they said in the middle ages.

Now, since I addressed also Setianism: Of course it is also a philosophy, but as such, it has quite a hard time of answering why Becoming actually is a value to live for. You could as well stick to humanism, to the Stoa or to whatever. Unless there is a religion which the philosophy can parasite on, there is no philosophy because every value can be deconstructed. Welcome to the nihilism that Nietzsche had announced (and to which his uberhuman pathos devoid of content was no solution).

Since values ultimately cannot be argued (that's why they can be deconstructed!), they just must be put forth, and that's what religion does. You can't argue why Becoming is a good thing without having bought heavily into the whole becoming-thing before, which is circular logic. Only that "logic" is the wrong kind of category here as religion isn't about logic.
 

S_J

Member
Now, since I addressed also Setianism: Of course it is also a philosophy, but as such, it has quite a hard time of answering why Becoming actually is a value to live for.

Is Setianism just a philosophy? For I would suppose philosophy doesn't need a priesthood.

Maybe Becoming is just what happens anyway, and Setianism helps you to give that meaning.
How exactly would Setianism do that? Ouh.. not easy to describe that, or to dare even searching words for that. Being the heirs of a "materialist religion" like the CoS, how would folks be allowed to value anything beyond it's materialistic aspects, right?

Is there any possibility to "create" something? Is it not just re-assembly? What is art then?

At least I really wouldn't call philosophy what obviously involves - gods :)

All the best,
SJ
 

Daelach

Setian
Is Setianism just a philosophy?

I wouldn't have written "also" if I had meant "just" (;

For I would suppose philosophy doesn't need a priesthood.

That is the point. AS philosophy, it does have said difficulties. But not as religion.

Maybe Becoming is just what happens anyway, and Setianism helps you to give that meaning.

Well yes, of course - but with that line of argument, anything and it's opposite can also be a value. The point here is again, that valueing some things over other things, like becoming over stasis, cannot be justified on a purely philosophical ground, i.e. without involving a religion.

How exactly would Setianism do that?

Religions just put forth their values, that's it. Since religion itself isn't rational, it doesn't need to reason these values in a rational way, something which would be impossible anyway. You get either circular logic, an epistemological fundamentalism or an infinite regress, and neither of them is rationally acceptable. Religions by and large choose the first two options.

As for creating - the circular logic as used by religions gets you to some kind of autopoetic system that rises from the nihilistic dust.

Being the heirs of a "materialist religion" like the CoS, how would folks be allowed to value anything beyond it's materialistic aspects, right?

By not being content with what they had and doing something different instead? (;

At least I really wouldn't call philosophy what obviously involves - gods :)

"Gods" could also be understood in a purely archetypical way, cf. CG Jung's works. Or as symbols. The COS has something like that.
 

Adramelek

Setian
Premium Member
Is Setianism just a philosophy? For I would suppose philosophy doesn't need a priesthood.

Regarding the ToS - The Temple of Set is a Left-Hand Path religious institution and Initiatory School of the Black Arts, dedicated to the accumulation of the knowledge of the Prince of Darkness. It is not a social club or an internet forum. It is for the serious and dedicated student and practitioner of the Black Arts. One enters the Temple as a First Degree Setian and receives the first of the Jeweled Tablets of Set that is the Crystal Tablet. He then begins a rigorous study and practice of the teachings of Setian Magic and philosophy contained in the CT and the Temple's suggested reading list in accordance with his own will.

The First Degree Setian also begins to work closely with an Initiate of the Setian Priesthood in a student/mentor sort of relationship. This first working magical relationship is designed to teach and help guide the beginning Setian towards the Degree of Adept which is Recognized by the mentoring Priest or Priestess of Set. There is a two year time limit to this process, during which time the First Degree Setian is required to demonstrate whether or not he or she is indeed an Adept Setian Black Magician.
 
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Adramelek

Setian
Premium Member
Maybe Becoming is just what happens anyway, and Setianism helps you to give that meaning.
How exactly would Setianism do that? Ouh.. not easy to describe that, or to dare even searching words for that. Being the heirs of a "materialist religion" like the CoS, how would folks be allowed to value anything beyond it's materialistic aspects, right?

Xeper
is an ancient Egyptian verb (pronounced Khefr) written as a stylized scarab beetle, which in English roughly translates as "To Become" or "To Evolve" or "I Have Come Into Being". We all have within ourselves our own individual hidden truths of higher being. The Path and Quest of Xeper is to uncover and to ultimately become the very embodiment and most complete and absolute manifestation of these truths.

"Xeper is the experience of an individual psyche becoming aware of its own existence and deciding to expand and evolve that existence through its own actions."
- Don Webb
It is a dynamic spiritual transformation in one's life in which the horizons of the potentiality of one's own being expands. It is the establishment of a new higher mode or state of existence. Xeper, like in Alchemy, is the transformation of the soul or psyche from a lower state or base element into that of a higher state or divine element. In these moments of dynamic spiritual transformation, major paradigms in the individuals life are shifted and his/her being is changed for ever. Xeper is that which transformed humans from what we were 2 million years ago to that which we are today. Hence, it occurs on both a macrocosmic (racial) and a microcosmic (individual) level.
 
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L.Keane

Master Cosmonaut~EoB
Dear Adramelek,

You wrote:

The First Degree Setian also begins to work closely with an Initiate of the Setian Priesthood in a student/mentor sort of relationship. This first working magical relationship is designed to teach and help guide the beginning Setian towards the Degree of Adept which is Recognized by the mentoring Priest or Priestess of Set. There is a two year time limit to this process, during which time the First Degree Setian is required to demonstrate whether or not he or she is indeed an Adept Setian Black Magician.

I would make few points of clarification here. The First Degree can start Working with a member of the Priesthood (this is not an automatic process) and while there can be a student/mentor relationship it can also be a relationship of active observation with very little direction from the Priesthood. Ultimately it is up to the Initiate to do their own Work in the way that suits them best. There is some guidance but there also needs to be a high level of independent thought and action, as you know.
 

Adramelek

Setian
Premium Member
Xeper happens. Xeper happened to me on that day when I first truly heard that piece of music which would inspire me to devote the next seven to eight years of my life attending the Brook Fine Arts Academy learning music theory and piano technique. Xeper happened to me on that night when I first invoked the Name of Set in a Working of Greater Black Magic and Came Into Being as a Setian. As I have stated, in those moments of dynamic spiritual transformation major paradigms in my life were shifted and I was changed forever. :smileycat:
 
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Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
*** THREAD REOPENED ***

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The DIR sub-forums are for the express use of discussion by that specific group. They are not to be used for debate by anyone. People of other groups or faiths may post respectful questions to increase their understanding. Questions of a rhetorical or argumentative nature or that counter the beliefs of that DIR are not permitted. DIR areas are not to be used as cover to bash others outside the faith. The DIR forums are strictly moderated and posts are subject to editing or removal.
 
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