"Realize"

[doppelganger]

I love reading passages where people use this word. It's usage tends to be so habituated, yet it carries so much information . . . :rainbow1:

 

[Random]

I love reading passages where people use this word. It's usage tends to be so habituated, yet it carries so much information . . . :rainbow1:

Yes, taking the stuff of thought and actualizing it in the real world. It's neat. Do you think real-ization comes before or after ideation? Some people will think something about something, realize something about it, and then say "I have an idea!", which would seem to indicate it comes before, know what I mean?

 

[doppelganger]

Yes, taking the stuff of thought and actualizing it in the real world. It's neat. Do you think real-ization comes before or after ideation? Some people will think something about something, realize something about it, and then say "I have an idea!", which would seem to indicate it comes before, know what I mean?

Great question! I want to think about that a bit . . . By ideation you mean the forming of a thought about a thing?

Can I "realize" a thing without an ideation of it? Is that sort of what religious "faith" does?

Or must I have some ideation (however much a work in progress it may be) in order to realize it?

Or are they simultaneous, or synonyms.

 

[doppelganger]

Here's a couple of passages from Constantin Brunner's Our Christ: Revolt of the Mystical Genius that might be helpful in this discussion, as he talks about the ideatum (though perhaps with a lack of self-reflection):

Directly within ourselves we seize upon the reality, indubitably real reality of absolute existence as the Cogitant, and thus are saved from all the discord, distress and disease of the ideatum. For the Cogitant within us does not and cannot fall sick with superstition; superstition is the malady of the ideatum, it is absolutized relativity.

Either they must imagine the Cogitant as another ideatum, another thing, as a thing behind their things (as that imaginary thing, the [child of unknown parentage] of thing and nothing) - or else they decide that it has no existence at all because they cannot think it, because it cannot be made comprehensible to them. But to make it comprehensible to them would mean, precisely, to make it incomprehensible, for it would mean removing it from life and moving into the sphere of the ideated thing-like, down to those who lie nailed in the coffin of such thingly thinking. It cannot be converted, it cannot be translated from the living into the dead in order that the dead may live by it.

 

[Random]

Great question! I want to think about that a bit . . . By ideation you mean the forming of a thought about a thing? Can I "realize" a thing without an ideation of it? Is that sort of what religious "faith" does?

Yes, the forming of a thought about a thing. You can realize a thing without an ideation of it, that's what Buddha talked about in the Nirvanaic state of mind; like seeing things as they really are without the desire to reformat them to suit some percieved meaning or symbolism. A rock is a rock, end of story. It is definitely what mysticism @ the core of religious faith does, yes.

Or must I have some ideation (however much a work in progress it may be) in order to realize it?

No ideation is necessary, this is what the mystic state of awareness is about, usually the result of meditation or spiritual transformation. What Buddhists call the awakened mind, or sometimes no-mind.

Or are they simultaneous, or synonyms.

Yes, that's how it happens, @ once. But we of course "sort" our thoughts out and then percieve them in a certain order. Hence, time, and the concepts of "forethought" and "afterthought". So sometimes realization comes before ideation, and sometimes ideation before realization. But the realization without ideation is the calm, awakened state, the natural state even you might say.

 

[doppelganger]

Yes, that's how it happens, @ once. But we of course "sort" our thoughts out and then percieve them in a certain order. Hence, time, and the concepts of "forethought" and "afterthought". So sometimes realization comes before ideation, and sometimes ideation before realization. But the realization without ideation is the calm, awakened state, the natural state even you might say.

Yes. I think this is what Brunner is driving at as well with his "Cogitant" in the passages I quote above.

 

[Random]

Yes. I think this is what Brunner is driving at as well with his "Cogitant" in the passages I quote above.

Sure is.

 

[Magic Man]

Yes, that's how it happens, @ once. But we of course "sort" our thoughts out and then percieve them in a certain order. Hence, time, and the concepts of "forethought" and "afterthought". So sometimes realization comes before ideation, and sometimes ideation before realization. But the realization without ideation is the calm, awakened state, the natural state even you might say.

Do you guys think there's a better way of doing it? Do you think there is another possible way for us to do it at all? Would it be possible to escape time and concepts of "forethought" and "afterthought"?

 

[Random]

Do you guys think there's a better way of doing it? Do you think there is another possible way for us to do it at all?

There is no better way of doing it than the natural way, there is nothing wrong with the mind or the way it perceives reality. It works. If there were another way, there might be consequences in terms of how well one functions in the real world, and the system we live in is not conducive to or forgiving of those who see things differently to what is expected.

Would it be possible to escape time and concepts of "forethought" and "afterthought"?

Not in this life, no. But in altered (transient) states, such as the mystical awareness and narcotic-induced states (Entheogens, for example), we can experience in a fleeting way what it is like to live beyond the boundaries of time, space, and thought. The realization of Simulataneity itself, that everything is in a higher sense is happening @ once relative to how we perceive it, frees the mind from the subtle impressions of time-space awareness that can cause con-fusion and feelings of being "bound". You are free, right now; stop all thinking, and see things as they really are - that's the Buddhist idea.

 

[Willamena]

I love reading passages where people use this word. It's usage tends to be so habituated, yet it carries so much information . . . :rainbow1:

I didn't "realize" you felt that way.

But I do now.

 

[Rolling_Stone]

Yes, taking the stuff of thought and actualizing it in the real world. It's neat. Do you think real-ization comes before or after ideation? Some people will think something about something, realize something about it, and then say "I have an idea!", which would seem to indicate it comes before, know what I mean?

I left the church I inherited from my parents, but I did not abandon God. “Seek and ye shall find,” and I sought. I sought among the sciences and philosophies and religions of the world, absorbing what resonated within my heart and mind. There is much to be found in all, but none were completely satisfying. In the final analysis, what I found is something of a paradox: no one finds truth by seeking, but only those who seek truth shall find it. The reason for this became quite apparent. Even though I have long been aware of the words, I had to grow wary of the search in order to take to heart, to realize, the meaning of the words: “Behold, the kingdom of God is within you.”