Questions for LHP's.

[Wookiemonster]

I've never actually had an opportunity to speak with anyone who was/is following a LHP. I was wondering if anyone would be willing to answer some questions I have either here or in PM's.

I would do internet research to find answer to my questions, however I am using my in-laws computer and they would undoubtly find any such website that I might visit and I have no wish to start that converstaion with them.

Thanks in advance.

WM

 

[rojse]

Oh, please as them in this thread if you don't think the in-laws will snoop on here - that way, everyone can find out the answer.

 

[darkendless]

I'm not a stereotypical LHP but i may be able to answer your questions, i'm a former Laveyan Satanist.

Fire away, im sure tohers will answer as well

 

[Wookiemonster]

DISCLAMER: I have absolutely no knowledge of any of the LHP's other than that which comes from being raised in THE Bible Belt and the stereotypical portrayals from Hollywood. I mean no offence in asking the things I do, and apologize if any is given.


1) Where exactly did the term Left Hand Path come from? Is it LHP as opposed to RHP? With RHP being religions such as Christianity?

2) Is Satan/Lucifer worshiped as a Deity? Or is he (or is it she) more of a figure head or "mascot"?

3) What are some of the difference between different "versions" of LHP's. What are they called, and why?

I have more, but I figured I would start with these three and see where the answers lead me.

*anything in quotation marks is just the best word I could come up with, not meant to be offensive*

 

[darkendless]

DISCLAMER: I have absolutely no knowledge of any of the LHP's other than that which comes from being raised in THE Bible Belt and the stereotypical portrayals from Hollywood. I mean no offence in asking the things I do, and apologize if any is given.


1) Where exactly did the term Left Hand Path come from? Is it LHP as opposed to RHP? With RHP being religions such as Christianity?

2) Is Satan/Lucifer worshiped as a Deity? Or is he (or is it she) more of a figure head or "mascot"?

3) What are some of the difference between different "versions" of LHP's. What are they called, and why?

I have more, but I figured I would start with these three and see where the answers lead me.

*anything in quotation marks is just the best word I could come up with, not meant to be offensive*

1) the left hand path is not just satanism. It encompasses many belief systems as old as christianity itself, perhaps older. Popular satanism was the works of Anton Lavey who took a lot of inspiration from the likes of Alistair Crowley and Mark Twain.

2) Some satanists worship satan yes. Personally im an atheist/satanist myself, so i do not do any worshipping. Some believe in satan the way christians believe in God though yes.

3) Well satanism can be taken as literally as you want it to. A popular version is LaVeyan satanism, but there are 10,000,000 different kinds of it. There are no set structures and beliefs. My believes are much different to everyone elses on the forum here. There are some key elements, but much of satanism is loose. Then there is the Luciferians. Im afraid you may have to ask them for specifics. I never really understood it. Theres the Set's, once again, a bit out of my range.

I hope this is useful, if you want any details please ask, i know my answers are not very clear or detailed, but we can get more specific

 

[Wookiemonster]

...

1) What are some of the other religions that are classified as LHP's? Mark Twain followed a LHP? Or did he have a line of thinking that lead others to thinking about following a LHP?

2) If you have a chance, could you direct someone who does see Satan as a deity to this thread...I have some questions specific to that line of though.

3) Would you mind sharing your specific beliefs? Just a general overview.

 

[darkendless]

1) What are some of the other religions that are classified as LHP's? Mark Twain followed a LHP? Or did he have a line of thinking that lead others to thinking about following a LHP?

Exactly, his line of thinking was incorporated into the LHP. He himself was probably a Christian wanderer, but his thinking influenced modern satanism, much like Alistair Crowley. A lot of their work envoked free thinking, something their Christian superiors denounced.

Since the dawn of christianity, satanism has been every religion outside of christianity. Something i think is important is to know that satanism is not a group of religions, but a group of ideas. Almost every non-abrahamic religion has similarities to satanism in some form.

2) If you have a chance, could you direct someone who does see Satan as a deity to this thread...I have some questions specific to that line of though.

It may be worth starting a thread, even in religious debates (so the right people see it) asking for people who see satan as a diety. Its more common for Luciferians to worship lucifer as a diety than satanists. Most satanists are in it for the lifestyle, not the worshipping

3) Would you mind sharing your specific beliefs? Just a general overview.

[/quote]

Ok, back when i was 15 or 16 i used to worship satan as a diety, i saw him as the challenger in the ring, challenging God over his moral injustices against humanity. I thought God made us weaker through implying forgiveness, controlled people through the bible and ultimately broke down the power the human race had. Thats why i worshipped satan as i wanted to feel the "power" envoked by worshipping him as a diety. Personally it didn't work. I can't and could never honestly worship higher powers with human characteristics.

These days i live by the ideals of satanism. I live for myself and not for others. I have high self esteem because without it, we are all week. Thats a satanists power, to feel like they have themselves to live for. I don't believe in forgiveness, i see it as a weakness as people need to be taught lessons for their mistakes so they learn something (oddly i thought this would be a christian thing - apparently god is always punishing us ) . Basically, i follow the satanic "commandments" and very loosely at that. They are more for self development than strict adherance. There are no methods of punishment for breaking the commandments, only weakness and failure as a person.

 

[Erebus]

DISCLAMER: I have absolutely no knowledge of any of the LHP's other than that which comes from being raised in THE Bible Belt and the stereotypical portrayals from Hollywood. I mean no offence in asking the things I do, and apologize if any is given.


1) Where exactly did the term Left Hand Path come from? Is it LHP as opposed to RHP? With RHP being religions such as Christianity?

2) Is Satan/Lucifer worshiped as a Deity? Or is he (or is it she) more of a figure head or "mascot"?

3) What are some of the difference between different "versions" of LHP's. What are they called, and why?

I have more, but I figured I would start with these three and see where the answers lead me.

*anything in quotation marks is just the best word I could come up with, not meant to be offensive*

Well Darkendless did a great job of answering this, so I'm not sure how much I can add, but I'll give it a shot...

1. There's a bit of debate over where the term originated, though I believe it started out life in one of the Dharmic religions (you'd have to ask them, I'm not certain). LHP generally refers to a set of values/beliefs which encourage personal development, self improvement and being "masterless" rather than trying to recieve blessings through humility, subjugation etc.

2. Satan and Lucifer are simply examples of possible deities/figureheads. It doesn't particularly matter which deity you believe in or disbelieve in, as long as it works for you personally. Many LHPers are atheists, while others may invoke Satan, Lucifer, Set, Ahriman, Dionysus, Tiamat and a plethora of others.

3. The three most common groups are Satanist, Luciferian and Setian. All of these can be theistic or atheistic depending on the follower in question. Satanists find something appealing in the figure of Satan (typically power, carnality and defiance) Luciferians are attracted by the figure of Lucifer (typically attracted by wisdom, beauty and magic) and Setians are attracted by the figure of Set, though unfortunately I haven't studied Setianism so you'd have to ask them for their reasons. A lot of LHPers don't adhere to any of these three forms and will follow whatever deity suits them (if they follow a deity at all).

Personally I don't fall into one of the three main categories and will invoke any deity/spirit/angel/demon I think could help me. I make a distinction between "invoke" and "worship" as I tend to use ritual and magic in place of prayer and I'm incapable of subjugating myself before anything or anyone.

 

[Wookiemonster]

Exactly, his line of thinking was incorporated into the LHP. He himself was probably a Christian wanderer, but his thinking influenced modern satanism, much like Alistair Crowley. A lot of their work envoked free thinking, something their Christian superiors denounced.

Are their specific works of his (Mark Twain) that were used, or all of them? If specific works were/are used could you tell me some so that I can read them.

Since the dawn of christianity, satanism has been every religion outside of christianity. Something i think is important is to know that satanism is not a group of religions, but a group of ideas. Almost every non-abrahamic religion has similarities to satanism in some form.

What are some of those similarities?

These days i live by the ideals of satanism. I live for myself and not for others.

Is this a "I'm going to make sure I get mine" type of living? Or something else?

I don't believe in forgiveness, i see it as a weakness as people need to be taught lessons for their mistakes so they learn something (oddly i thought this would be a christian thing - apparently god is always punishing us )

.
So you don't think it exists or is it something that you just don't personally give or seek? Do you think it is impossible for a person to have both have forgiveness and learn a lesson from their mistakes?

There are no methods of punishment for breaking the commandments, only weakness and failure as a person.

So here the consequences of breaking the commandments are internal rather than external?

 

[Wookiemonster]

LHP generally refers to a set of values/beliefs which encourage personal development, self improvement and being "masterless" rather than trying to recieve blessings through humility, subjugation etc.

Does this masterlessness (did I just make up a word?) lead into Satan (or any other deity one might call on) being a partner of sorts rather than “the master” figure most Christians see in Christ?

Many LHPers are atheists, while others may invoke Satan, Lucifer, Set, Ahriman, Dionysus, Tiamat and a plethora of others.

Could one invoke....um...Anubis as be considered a LHP? Basically I'm asking if their is a limit to which deity's can be "chosen" from.

Personally I don't fall into one of the three main categories and will invoke any deity/spirit/angel/demon I think could help me.

Theoretically then if you thought that G-d in the Christian understanding could help you would you call on him?

 

[Azakel]

1. There's a bit of debate over where the term originated, though I believe it started out life in one of the Dharmic religions (you'd have to ask them, I'm not certain). LHP generally refers to a set of values/beliefs which encourage personal development, self improvement and being "masterless" rather than trying to recieve blessings through humility, subjugation etc.

I believe you are right, the religion is LHP Tantra:
Tantra is a set of esoteric Indian traditions with roots in Hinduism and later Buddhism (which is a separate Dharma formed from Hinduism). Tantra is often divided by its practitioners into two different paths: dakshinachara and vamachara, translated as Right-Hand Path and Left-Hand Path respectively.
Dakshinachara consists of traditional Hindu practices such as asceticism and meditation, while vamachara also includes ritual practices that conflict with mainstream Hinduism, such as sexual rituals, consumption of alcohol and other intoxicants, animal sacrifice, and flesh-eating.
The two paths are viewed by Tantrists as equally valid approaches to enlightenment. Vamachara, however, is considered to be the faster and more dangerous of the two paths, and is not suitable for all practitioners. This usage of the terms Left-Hand Path and Right-Hand Path is still current in modern Tantra.

Does this masterlessness (did I just make up a word?) lead into Satan (or any other deity one might call on) being a partner of sorts rather than “the master” figure most Christians see in Christ?

I would say that if one is a Theist LHP such being can end up being 'Partners' if not more like a teacher then a "Master"

Could one invoke....um...Anubis as be considered a LHP? Basically I'm asking if their is a limit to which deity's can be "chosen" from.

I would say yes, but it might also depend on how one see those gods. If some who worships the Egyptian gods call on him that doesn't make them LHP, but someone who is LHP might call on Anubis.

Theoretically then if you thought that G-d in the Christian understanding could help you would you call on him?

This thought is what kept me away from the LBRP when I first started down my LHP path. But I would say that many might call on it, in a some way..

 

[Erebus]

Does this masterlessness (did I just make up a word?) lead into Satan (or any other deity one might call on) being a partner of sorts rather than “the master” figure most Christians see in Christ?


Could one invoke....um...Anubis as be considered a LHP? Basically I'm asking if their is a limit to which deity's can be "chosen" from.


Theoretically then if you thought that G-d in the Christian understanding could help you would you call on him?

Azakel pretty much hit the nail on the head with his reply. As for invoking the Christian God, yes you could theoretically invoke him if you genuinely thought he would help you. I personally don't invoke him because a) I don't believe in him in a conventional sense and b) I don't like what he stands for anyway.
I think of gods in two ways. Firstly I'm a Pantheist, I believe that the universe itself and everything in it compose the "supreme being" which may or may not be conscious. Since I don't know if this being is conscious I don't see much point in invoking it, instead I invoke spirits or deities (whatever you want to call them). I don't know whether the entities I invoke are an actual deity or merely some form of spirit with a personality appropriate to the spell I had in mind.
Simply put, I don't know whether the spells I use invoke a god, an angel, a demon or some universal power. All I concern myself with is achieving a result.

 

[Wookiemonster]

Vamachara also includes ritual practices that conflict with mainstream Hinduism, such as sexual rituals, consumption of alcohol and other intoxicants, animal sacrifice, and flesh-eating. The two paths are viewed by Tantrists as equally valid approaches to enlightenment. Vamachara, however, is considered to be the faster and more dangerous of the two paths, and is not suitable for all practitioners.

Is Vamachara considered more dangerous because of the possibility of the practitioner getting caught up in the rites themselves rather than focusing on enlightenment?

I would say that if one is a Theist LHP such being can end up being 'Partners' if not more like a teacher then a "Master"

Ok...that makes sense.

 

[Wookiemonster]

I think of gods in two ways. Firstly I'm a Pantheist, I believe that the universe itself and everything in it compose the "supreme being" which may or may not be conscious. Since I don't know if this being is conscious I don't see much point in invoking it, instead I invoke spirits or deities (whatever you want to call them). I don't know whether the entities I invoke are an actual deity or merely some form of spirit with a personality appropriate to the spell I had in mind.

Simply put, I don't know whether the spells I use invoke a god, an angel, a demon or some universal power. All I concern myself with is achieving a result.

Assuming that the "supreme being" is not conscious; could these spirits be "it's" subconscious acting in response to your calling? Just a thought I had...

 

[Erebus]

Assuming that the "supreme being" is not conscious; could these spirits be "it's" subconscious acting in response to your calling? Just a thought I had...

It's entirely possible. Like I said, I don't know exactly what makes magic work, but it seems to do its job.

 

[Azakel]

Is Vamachara considered more dangerous because of the possibility of the practitioner getting caught up in the rites themselves rather than focusing on enlightenment?

I don't know if it is or not, it might be by some people. Then again the LHP in general seems to be considered more dangerous(for what ever reason).

 

[darkendless]

Are their specific works of his (Mark Twain) that were used, or all of them? If specific works were/are used could you tell me some so that I can read them.

Not that i've seen, i have seen a few references to Twain on Satanic sites because of his free thinking philosophies.

What are some of those similarities?

Individualism and freely generated thought processes are the main ones i recognise. These are encouraged in Hinduism and Buddhism unless i am mistaken. A lot of satanic mythology is very similiar to pagan mythology, and old Norse tales. Not long ago i was reading a page looking up info about metalurgy which said Mohammed was influenced by satan to capture Arabia. Pretty scarey stuff.

Is this a "I'm going to make sure I get mine" type of living? Or something else?

I dont really label anything i do. My lifestyle is to do whats best for me by working for the good of myself rather than for others. I'm not an arrogant fool, arrogance is a "sin" in satanism but i am very goal driven, i know what i want in life
.

So you don't think it exists or is it something that you just don't personally give or seek? Do you think it is impossible for a person to have both have forgiveness and learn a lesson from their mistakes?

Forgiveness exists but it is a flaw in our upbringing.

So here the consequences of breaking the commandments are internal rather than external?

Precisely. You're only hurting yourself by committing what satanists percieve as sins. You will not be punished in hellfire, but you may regret your actions.

 

[dragynfly0515]

I believe that the universe itself and everything in it compose the "supreme being" which may or may not be conscious. Since I don't know if this being is conscious I don't see much point in invoking it, instead I invoke spirits or deities (whatever you want to call them). I don't know whether the entities I invoke are an actual deity or merely some form of spirit with a personality appropriate to the spell I had in mind.

I agree with this model of spirituality. Since I have come to the conclusion that whatever supreme being that may or may not exist is either not conscious or not interested then I must take responsibility for my own life and its meaning. So I have chosen the self deification of the left hand path as opposed to seeking union with a higher power (right hand path).

:candle:
Crys

 

[Amandus]

I would like to (re) answer a few questions.

1) Where exactly did the term Left Hand Path come from? Is it LHP as opposed to RHP? With RHP being religions such as Christianity?

I think that the distinction between the right and left-hand path originate from the book of Matthew in The Bible.

In Matthew 25:32-33, it states 'All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. And he will set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.'

Additionally, if you are not already familiar with the symbols used within the left-hand path, then the sabbatic goat (also known as 'Baphomet') is used by LaVeyan Satanists and Luciferians.

In LaVeyan Satanism, the head of the sabbatic goat is used in the official symbol created by Anton LaVey. It is known as 'The Sigil of Baphomet'.

In an interview with Peter H. Gilmore, the current high priest of the Church of Satan, he states 'The goat face represents carnality. In ancient Egypt goats were considered representations as god symbols of lust, and we think lust is an important factor of biology that keeps humanity going so we value that.'

In Luciferianism, the sabbatic goat is used as one of the main symbols. It is known as the 'The Black Head of Wisdom'.

In the book "The Bible of the Adversary" written by Michael W. Ford, the founder of the The Order of Phosphorus, he states 'The horns represents power, the beast head is the carnal body, and the torch represents the Black Flame. The inverted pentagram represents the power of the adversary.' (there's more if you're interested)

Are their specific works of his (Mark Twain) that were used, or all of them? If specific works were/are used could you tell me some so that I can read them.

Mark Twain's book "Letters from the Earth" accurately represents the archetype of Satan in LaVeyan Satanism.

In an interview with Peter H. Gilmore, he states 'When we look at how he [Satan] is portrayed by Mark Twain in Letters from the Earth, he ends up being an inspirational symbol to us. We say we would like to be more like that. We will not bow our heads; we will be independent. We will constantly question.'

 

[sinistercurrent]

Hi Amandus,

thanks for this interesting interpretation of the sinister mysteries unk:

best wishes, Sin