Questions about The Deceiver

[Kori]

For those who do not know he is Islam's Version of the Anti-Christ. My question to Muslims and to a degree Non-Muslims is: How would you truly know who he is? That is if it even is a he. Could it be a woman? Or maybe a Man pretending to be a woman. I am not trying to sound silly in this. I am just saying if someone is trying to take a lead role in the regards of the end of days, confusion would help in that. How much about this in the Koran is meant to be literal and what is meant to be symbolic? How does one decide on that? Sorry if this seems odd. Sorry if this has been asked before on this forum, I'm sure it has. To put it simply: I just want to know.

 

[wizanda]

How would you truly know who he is? That is if it even is a he.

Though not mentioned within the Quran, there are numerous Hadiths describing the Dajjal....

He is to be a fake white Messiah that the world will follow, be blind in an eye, with curly hair, and loads more... so it is described in detail.

How much about this in the Koran is meant to be literal and what is meant to be symbolic? How does one decide on that?

Now most Muslims will tell you it is a real person being described; yet we find the exact same symbolic references for Armilus within Jewish text, and within Zechariah 11:15-17.

When Isa returns, he shall destroy the Dajjal's followers, by breaking the cross, and stopping the eating of swine...

In other words, Christians are the followers of the Dajjal, and their white Gentile jesus is the Anti-Christ (John, Paul and Simon the stone (Petros)).... Yeshua within the synoptic gospels is the real one.

 

[Pastek]

There's nothing in the Quran about the antichrist, it was the prophet Muhammad who talked about him so you'll find this in hadiths.

I don't know if we have a different "version" of the antichrist i thought it was more or less the same as in Christianity.

I disagree with @wizanda we don't believe christians are following/will follow the Dajjal we believe that only those who are not prepared will follow him.
Many christians know about the antichrist so like us they are among the most aware of this.
Even among the muslims some will believe the antichrist is Jesus, we have many hadiths from the Prophet saying this and then also saying we should pray a lot (dua for not believing him), learn some surah to protect us from him, for not falling into the trap of the antichrist, and if we here about him (when he'll be there) we should avoid him.

 

[wizanda]

I disagree with @wizanda we don't believe christians are following/will follow the Dajjal we believe that only those who are not prepared will follow him.

Everyone is prepared for it, Jews for Armilus, Muslims for the Dajjal, and Christians for the Anti-Christ; yet none of you noticed it has already happened.

So wasn't saying Muslims believe Christians follow the Dajjal; was informing you the Anti-Christ is the writings of John, Paul and Simon the stone (petros), they've already misled the world, and created a fake version of the Messiah called 'jesus', with a fake version of the gospel.

The real Yeshua is right next to it in the synoptic gospels, and if you'd all bothered to examine each others text, and not all only look through one eye, you'd have seen the whole perspective.

 

[Pastek]

Some people believe that indeed, there's also some hadiths about people saying he is already here or people claiming they are the antichrist.

Then tell us who is the real Messiah and who was the antichrist according to you.

 

[wizanda]

Then tell us who is the real Messiah and who was the antichrist according to you.

The Real Yeshua​

• Within the synoptic gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke), Yeshua is the real Messiah.
• He taught a living gospel, that through our deeds, and character, we could make earth a better place.
  
• That by repentance, we gain forgiveness of sin.
  
• By following the commandments, and by giving up wealth, we gain eternal life.

The Fake jesus​

• Paul contradicts Christ on well over 36 points.
• The gospel of John isn't the words or teachings of Yeshua, it contradicts him, and the synoptic gospels in multiple points.
• Simon was called the stone by Yeshua, as he would misled everyone.
• These taught a dead gospel, where jesus was sent to die for the world. This is a defilement of Jewish Law, and accuses God of first degree murder.
• They make people swear an oath to a covenant with death, where simply by believing in the name of jesus, and that he died for you, you will gain eternal life; which is a direct contradiction to the teachings of Yeshua, especially within the parable of the wicked husbandmen, where he said those thinking they get inheritance from his death, shall be condemned instead.
• There are numerous points of Christian ideology that come from these 3, that can be shown to be opposite to what Yeshua taught, something that is opposite or against, can be defined as anti, so they're Anti-Christ's teachings.
• Between them, they make jesus into being god, by Paul saying he was the 'image of god', and within John there are numerous made up "I Am" statements, that Christians use to say jesus is god.
• The 'only begotten son of god' is only found within the gospel of John.
• The main basis for the idea of the Trinity comes from the gospel of John.

That is a start to defining some of it, can go into loads more detail.

 

[DawudTalut]

For those who do not know he is Islam's Version of the Anti-Christ. My question to Muslims and to a degree Non-Muslims is: How would you truly know who he is? .......

Peace be on you.
Ahmadiyya-Muslim view:
A mixture of anti-God, anti- true faith forces, or groups of people who disfigured their own true faith, are all called anti-christ, dajjal. They could be those clergies who make resistance to true faith.
Donkey of Dajal is mentioned with peculiar properties, which is obviously modern inventions.
Resources:
https://www.alislam.org/books/essence3/essence-3.pdf
https://www.alislam.org/urdu/kt/1982/19820924e.pdf

 

[Kori]

Peace be on you.
Ahmadiyya-Muslim view:
A mixture of anti-God, anti- true faith forces, or groups of people who disfigured their own true faith, are all called anti-christ, dajjal. They could be those clergies who make resistance to true faith.
Donkey of Dajal is mentioned with peculiar properties, which is obviously modern inventions.
Resources:
https://www.alislam.org/books/essence3/essence-3.pdf
https://www.alislam.org/urdu/kt/1982/19820924e.pdf

I saved them and will start to read later. I just woke up like 20 mins. ago.

 

[Ron Hackel]

Try any organized religion (Christians, Muslims and Jews). They all teach a god that is to be feared. God is agape love. John said that anyone that denied Jesus was the Son of God was the antichrist. This sounds stupid, but he said it because the Jews worshiped the Mount Sinai god who's character was one of a legalistic tyrant. Jesus was the exact opposite of that picture of a god. The Jews had rejected God as he was in the desert and asked to have the kind of god they had in Egypt. God obliged them because he is agape love. If you need Scriptural proof read Stephen's testimony in Acts 7:39-42 and Deuteronomy 18:15-17. I have a paper that goes into great detail on the difference between Jesus and the Mount Sinai god. But as Jesus said, narrow is the gate and few find it.

 

[Rajina]

When Isa returns, he shall destroy the Dajjal's followers, by breaking the cross, and stopping the eating of swine...

In other words, Christians are the followers of the Dajjal, and their white Gentile jesus is the Anti-Christ (John, Paul and Simon the stone (Petros)).... Yeshua within the synoptic gospels is the real one.

I think your interpretation is wrong.

First of all Prophet Muhammad (ص) described dajjal as a person to come in future. The false concept of Jesus which you are are talking about was there at the time of Prophet Muhammad(ص), the Quran also mentions about this false concept. If that was Dajjal he wouldnt have said about him as a person to come in future.

It was narrated that Umair bin Hani Al-Ansi said, “I heard Abdullah bin Umar (RA) saying: We were sitting with Allah’s Messenger (ص) and he mentioned tribulations……. A man will rise as a believer in the morning, and come upon the evening as a disbeliever, until the people are split into two camps: the camp of Faith in which there will be no hypocrisy, and the camp of hypocrisy in which there will be no Faith. When that happens, (then) expect the ‘Dajjal’ on that day or the next.”
(Hadith No. 4242, Book of Tribulations & Great Battles, Sunan Abu Dawud, Vol. 4).

Mu'az ibn Jabal narrated that the Prophet(ص)said: "Al-Malhama Al-Kubra (Big Battle), conquest of Constantinople, and the coming-out of Dajjal (Anti-Christ) will be (occur) within (a period of) seven months." (Abu Dawud and Ibn Maja)

Secondly from your interpretation, the deception of Dajjal does not effect majority of people, it effects only the christians. But According to hadeeth, it is the greatest disaster that the children of Adam are going to face and each one of us should fear his arrival. And the kind of fitnah that he is going to make is not like the one which you are talking about

The Prophet (PBUH) said: Between the creation of Adam (AS) and the onset of the Hour, there is no creation that has more impact than the ‘Dajjal’ – (Hadith No. 7395 (2946), Book of Tribulations & Portents of the Hour, Sahih Muslim, Vol. 7).

Hudhayfah (may Allah be pleased with him) said: “The Messenger of Allah(ص) said: ‘The Dajjal will be one-eyed, blind in his left eye, and will have thick hair. He will have a paradise and a hell with him, but his paradise will be a hell and his hell will be a paradise.’” [Muslim, no. 5222]

Hudhayfah (may Allah be pleased with him) said: “The Messenger of Allah(ص) said: ‘I know what the Dajjal will bring with him: he will have two rivers flowing. One will clearly look like water and the other will clearly look like blazing fire. If any one of you sees that, let him choose the river which looks like fire, then let him close his eyes and lower his head and drink from it, for it will be cool water.’” [Muslim, no. 5223]

Al-Bukhaari narrated from Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri (may Allah be pleased with him) that this man whom the Dajjal will kill will be one of the best people, who will go out to the Dajjal from the city of the Messenger of Allah(ص) , and will say to the Dajjal, “I bear witness that you are the Dajjal of whom the Messenger of Allah told us.” The Dajjal will say (to the people): “What do you think – if I kill this man then bring him back to life, will you have any doubts?” They will say, “No.” So he will kill him, then bring him back to life. Then he (the believing man) will say, “By Allah, I have never been more sure about you than I am today.” The Dajjal will want to kill him but will not be permitted to. [Sahih Al-Bukhaari, no. 6599]

The Prophet(ص) said of the Dajjal: “Part of his fitnah will be that he will say to a Bedouin, Do you think that if I resurrect your father and mother for you that you will testify that I am your lord?’ He will say, ‘Yes.’ So two devils will appear to him in the image of his father and mother, saying, ‘O my son, follow him for he is your lord.’”[Ibn Maajah, no. 4]

Thirdly Prophet Muhammed(ص) said that Isa(عليه السلام) would kill Dajjal, I dont think that he said Isa(عليه السلام) would destroy the followers of Dajjal by breaking the cross and stopping the eating of swine.

Finally the kind of decepetion you are talking about were always there here. God sent thousands of messengers to different parts of the world. But people always deviate from the original message, adapting it to their culture and for personal benefits. In many cases they start worshipping the messengers. That is why there are so much religions and false gods around the world.

For example this is a verse from Bhagavad Gita:

“He who knows Me as the unborn, as the beginningless, as the Supreme Lord of all the worlds—he only, undeluded among men, is freed from all sins.” Bhagavad Geetha 10.3

Just like how Christians believe that Jesus said “I am “, Hindus believe that these are the words of Krishna to Arjuna and they interpret from this that Krishna is the supreme Lord.

There are followers of Prophet Muhammed(ص) who pray to the dead people in darghas which is clearly against his teachings.

The deception by John, Paul and Simon is a similar kind of deception.

There are some scholars who have the opinion that the Mesaaya whom the Jews are preparing to welcome, would be the Antichrist. Some scholars have the opinion that even though Dajjal havent yet come into power, his black forces have already started the deceptions. And we can see that the whole world is being decieved in a lot of ways.

Now most Muslims will tell you it is a real person being described; yet we find the exact same symbolic references for Armilus within Jewish text, and within Zechariah 11:15-17.

Since the previous scriptures also had the same idea, doesnt that show that dajjal is a real person to come?
You can see similar ideas in Indian scriptures too..

 

[wizanda]

Secondly from your interpretation, the deception of Dajjal does not effect majority of people, it effects only the christians. But According to hadeeth, it is the greatest disaster that the children of Adam are going to face and each one of us should fear his arrival. And the kind of fitnah that he is going to make is not like the one which you are talking about

The world has been affected by Christianity, it has shaped everyone's religious beliefs, and even the word 'faith' has been bastardized by it.

Just look at the history books to see all the affects, that Christianity has caused.

Since the previous scriptures also had the same idea, doesnt that show that dajjal is a real person to come?

It isn't physically possible for someone's eye to float from left to right like a grape, it makes more sense as a metaphor.

As for it being a real person, jesus was a real person who came, caused most of the things ascribed to it, and is worship as god by millions.

Thirdly Prophet Muhammed(ص) said that Isa(عليه السلام) would kill Dajjal, I dont think that he said Isa(عليه السلام) would destroy the followers of Dajjal by breaking the cross and stopping the eating of swine.

If the Dajjal isn't a man, and is instead an evil metaphor that the world is following; it is possible to kill the fake 'jesus' by removing the fake text, this leaves us with a true gospel by Yeshua.

The eating of swine aspect is a clear clue, as Christians do that due to their fake text... Christians are also obsessed with the cross.

So are you saying someone new will come along, create a new cross, and get people to eat swine?

How do you expect that to happen?

 

[Rajina]

The world has been affected by Christianity, it has shaped everyone's religious beliefs, and even the word 'faith' has been bastardized by it.

How did Christianity shape the beliefs of vast majority of people who are not Christians?

The concept of faith is different for each religion. Assuming your concept of faith to be true and all others to be wrong, then Paul is not the only one who bastardized the definition of faith.

How can we say that they are still being decieved when God has sent them a messenger and a scripture inviting them back to the original faith that Jesus taught? They really have a choice and there are lot of Christians who accepted the message of the final messenger.

Just look at the history books to see all the affects, that Christianity has caused.

I don't think that Christianity has made more affects in history than Judaism or any other religion. And how do we know that the version of history that we are reading is the correct one.

Just look at the current situation of the world. Is it Christianity that controls the world? Or is it any other religions? Not at all.. The world economy, politics, media and even the religious leaders are now controlled by some elite class of people. Don't you see that it is a greater form of deception which effects the life of majority of the people.

It isn't physically possible for someone's eye to float from left to right like a grape, it makes more sense as a metaphor.

This is that Hadeeth:-
Ibn 'Umar(raa) reported that Allah's Messenger(ص) made a mention of Dajjal in the presence of the people and said: "Allah is not one-eyed and behold that Dajjal is blind of the right eye and his eye would be like a floating grape." [Muslim]

Eye like a floating grape is metaphoric. Haven't you seen blind people whose eye balls doesn't stay still?

Even if we take this hadeeth to be completely metaphoric, what about other hadeeths which clearly indicates that dajjal is a person.

As for it being a real person, jesus was a real person who came, caused most of the things ascribed to it, and is worship as god by millions.

Jesus caused most of the things ascribed to dajjal? In what way?

If the Dajjal isn't a man, and is instead an evil metaphor that the world is following; it is possible to kill the fake 'jesus' by removing the fake text, this leaves us with a true gospel by Yeshua.

How do you think its possible to remove the fake texts? How do we identify which parts of texts are faulty and which parts are not, and how do we know what Jesus would have actually preached? Even if we fix the texts do you think that people would believe in it and follow the fixed texts? Fixing the gospels doesn't fix the faith of vast majority of people, how is it possible to fix the faith of people of other religions?

Its all possible if Isa(عليه السلام) would return back. And that's what the scriptures say. Why should we interpet that return of Jesus is metaphoric, when the scriptures says it clearly that he would return back?

The eating of swine aspect is a clear clue, as Christians do that due to their fake text... Christians are also obsessed with the cross.

So are you saying someone new will come along, create a new cross, and get people to eat swine?

How do you expect that to happen?

I was saying that there is no hadeeth which says that Isa(عليه السلام) would destroy the followers of Dajjal by breaking cross and stopping eating of swine. You are combining two different hadeeths by adding a 'by' in between and misinterpreting it. You may not be doing it intentionally. It happens when we do a shallow reading of a text and then try to interpret it based on our beliefs.

 

[wizanda]

How did Christianity shape the beliefs of vast majority of people who are not Christians?

I'm sorry i can't summarize the whole of history, the Renaissance, world wars, scientific investigation alternate to the church, etc... There are just too many things to list.

then Paul is not the only one who bastardized the definition of faith.

Paul labeled a religious belief, as being called 'the faith'.... Thus now people use the word religion, and faith interchangeably.

Yet faith has nothing to do with religion, it means to trust, and doesn't need a religious belief....

So I've met more atheist with faith, than i do religious people who have a set of beliefs.

How can we say that they are still being decieved when God has sent them a messenger and a scripture inviting them back to the original faith that Jesus taught?

Yeshua said by following his teachings, not by only believing in his name... Which both Muslims and Christians do, so you've both been mislead by the deception, just the same.

Though Muslims and Christians are told to believe in Yeshua, many people don't study his teachings.

Thus Muslims, and Christians contradict lots of things that Yeshua taught.

I don't think that Christianity has made more affects in history than Judaism or any other religion.

Seriously; the crusades, the inquisition, the invasion of Africa, and America in the name of jesus, etc.

Is it Christianity that controls the world? Or is it any other religions?

At one point the Roman Catholic church did control the western world entirely, now they take a back seat....

26 seats of the house of lords in the UK are appointed to the church of England.

America is a Christian country, so If you don't back Israel, you won't get backing for your own policies in the Senate.

If we even question if Judaism is really in control, they'd have no power, without the millions of Christians ascribing to them being God's chosen people.

Don't you see that it is a greater form of deception which effects the life of majority of the people.

The people stay under the system, as we've been taught Law comes from God, government is appointed by God, we're not to question Government... All from Christianity for the last 1000+ years or so.

Jesus caused most of the things ascribed to dajjal? In what way?

Take into account that jesus is the fake that Christianity follows...

The Dajjal will be a fake messiah who will mislead the whole world, he shall be white, have curly hair, causes people to worship something other than God, he will claim to be god, he will raise the dead, in the name of 'jesus' they've traveled the world converting people, been an enemy of Islam, etc.

How do you think its possible to remove the fake texts?

The fake text of John, Paul and Simon the stone (petros) can all be removed based on the contradictions.

Even if we fix the texts do you think that people would believe in it and follow the fixed texts?

Having spent the last 12 years trying to end the Anti-Christ's teachings; then no i don't think people would follow the fixed texts, even if you established it, some would go the opposite way.

Fixing the gospels doesn't fix the faith of vast majority of people, how is it possible to fix the faith of people of other religions?

If it was fixed, and we established a true religion with Yeshua's teachings, then faith wouldn't be about religion, it would be about being a trusting person...

So this would affect others, just by there being a religion that is about being full of trust, not religious beliefs.

Why should we interpet that return of Jesus is metaphoric, when the scriptures says it clearly that he would return back?

Yeshua is to return; jesus isn't even a real person, it is a fake character made up within the gospel of John, etc.....

The idea that Isa will return, end the Dajjal, and we all live happily ever after, isn't within all texts...

Instead Biblically he shall return as a thief, examine the Dajjal/Anti-Christ, check it isn't possible to end it, and then judgement day shall come, removing all those who follow it.

 

[Rajina]

I'm sorry i can't summarize the whole of history, the Renaissance, world wars, scientific investigation alternate to the church, etc... There are just too many things to list.

Paul labeled a religious belief, as being called 'the faith'.... Thus now people use the word religion, and faith interchangeably.

Yet faith has nothing to do with religion, it means to trust, and doesn't need a religious belief....

So I've met more atheist with faith, than i do religious people who have a set of beliefs.

Yeshua said by following his teachings, not by only believing in his name... Which both Muslims and Christians do, so you've both been mislead by the deception, just the same.

Though Muslims and Christians are told to believe in Yeshua, many people don't study his teachings.

Thus Muslims, and Christians contradict lots of things that Yeshua taught.

Seriously; the crusades, the inquisition, the invasion of Africa, and America in the name of jesus, etc.

At one point the Roman Catholic church did control the western world entirely, now they take a back seat....

26 seats of the house of lords in the UK are appointed to the church of England.

America is a Christian country, so If you don't back Israel, you won't get backing for your own policies in the Senate.

If we even question if Judaism is really in control, they'd have no power, without the millions of Christians ascribing to them being God's chosen people.

The people stay under the system, as we've been taught Law comes from God, government is appointed by God, we're not to question Government... All from Christianity for the last 1000+ years or so.

Take into account that jesus is the fake that Christianity follows...

The Dajjal will be a fake messiah who will mislead the whole world, he shall be white, have curly hair, causes people to worship something other than God, he will claim to be god, he will raise the dead, in the name of 'jesus' they've traveled the world converting people, been an enemy of Islam, etc.

The fake text of John, Paul and Simon the stone (petros) can all be removed based on the contradictions.

Having spent the last 12 years trying to end the Anti-Christ's teachings; then no i don't think people would follow the fixed texts, even if you established it, some would go the opposite way.

If it was fixed, and we established a true religion with Yeshua's teachings, then faith wouldn't be about religion, it would be about being a trusting person...

So this would affect others, just by there being a religion that is about being full of trust, not religious beliefs.

Yeshua is to return; jesus isn't even a real person, it is a fake character made up within the gospel of John, etc.....

The idea that Isa will return, end the Dajjal, and we all live happily ever after, isn't within all texts...

Instead Biblically he shall return as a thief, examine the Dajjal/Anti-Christ, check it isn't possible to end it, and then judgement day shall come, removing all those who follow it.

I typed a long reply and then deleted it. I think Sheikh Imran Nazar Hossein can give you a better reply . Please hear this speach. Don't look at the audience, just listen the speach. This might help you and you might get a lot of information from this.

 

[Rajina]

Paul labeled a religious belief, as being called 'the faith'.... Thus now people use the word religion, and faith interchangeably.

Yet faith has nothing to do with religion, it means to trust, and doesn't need a religious belief....

So I've met more atheist with faith, than i do religious people who have a set of beliefs.

Yes.. Faith means strong trust.. But when someone says I have faith.. Obviously the question arises 'faith in what?'.Atheists might have faith in themselves, they might have faith in Science but they do not have faith in God. Some religions demand that a person should necessarily have faith in a set of facts to be a believer . For example in mainstream Christianity for someone to be a believer he/she should have faith in the triune God and should have faith in the concept that Jesus died on on cross for our sins. But when it comes to Islam for someone to be a true believer he/she should have faith in six things which we call the six pillars of eeman. So within the context of a religion, when we say faith, it just means faith in those facts that a believer should have faith in.

 

[wizanda]

I typed a long reply and then deleted it.

That is a shame, wanting to hear your responses, am aware what Muslims state, and maybe even already watched that video.

Christianity for someone to be a believer he/she should have faith in the triune God

You don't need to have faith in the trinity to be a Christian.

 

[Rajina]

That is a shame, wanting to hear your responses, am aware what Muslims state, and maybe even already watched that video.

My intension is to help you understand the truth and not to win the debate. I thought that speech would help you more than the reply I typed. You wouldn't have heard what he is saying from any other scholars. Majority of Muslim scholars don't accept his interpretations.

You don't need to have faith in the trinity to be a Christian.

That's a new information for me

 

[wizanda]

That's a new information for me

Yeah only certain denominations of Christianity enforce the trinity concept, Catholics do... Yet wouldn't say the majority of Christians accept it.

My intension is to help you understand the truth

Thank you...Re-watching the video, just to be sure i didn't miss anything the first time i watched it years ago.

As for discerning the truth, this would depend on which eye we're looking from.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

For those who do not know he is Islam's Version of the Anti-Christ. My question to Muslims and to a degree Non-Muslims is: How would you truly know who he is? That is if it even is a he. Could it be a woman? Or maybe a Man pretending to be a woman. I am not trying to sound silly in this. I am just saying if someone is trying to take a lead role in the regards of the end of days, confusion would help in that. How much about this in the Koran is meant to be literal and what is meant to be symbolic? How does one decide on that? Sorry if this seems odd. Sorry if this has been asked before on this forum, I'm sure it has. To put it simply: I just want to know.

Look to what is happening in Syria and Iraq, and increasingly further afield.

 

[paarsurrey]

Everyone is prepared for it, Jews for Armilus, Muslims for the Dajjal, and Christians for the Anti-Christ; yet none of you noticed it has already happened.
So wasn't saying Muslims believe Christians follow the Dajjal; was informing you the Anti-Christ is the writings of John, Paul and Simon the stone (petros), they've already misled the world, and created a fake version of the Messiah called 'jesus', with a fake version of the gospel.
The real Yeshua is right next to it in the synoptic gospels, and if you'd all bothered to examine each others text, and not all only look through one eye, you'd have seen the whole perspective.

I somewhat agree with you. It is an idiosyncratic personage of evil.
Regards