Orias
Left Hand Path
Like we are preparing for battle?
I can't help but put myself in that mindset some times.
Its just in my nature.
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Question regarding Satanism
- Thread starter F0uad
- Start date
Like we are preparing for battle?
I can't help but put myself in that mindset some times.
Its just in my nature.
Orias
Left Hand Path
I don't know about you or him, but I am pretty certain that I am uncertain about what I am, but I am certain that whatever I am is in opposition to something, therefore making me a Satanist.
Then stop speaking
I think you're right.
Though like I have said before, businesses tend to take off on the extreme end, attracting either "atheists" or "theists" of a specified type. With books offering rituals and prayers that all sell some sort of spiritual information.
I have to admit...its definitely in there but I tend to think more that its completely because of me.
jasonwill2
Well-Known Member
1. It seriously depends on who you ask. A lot say he's just a symbol or mode of behavior, some like me say he's more like an energy or spirit.
2. Typically one "invokes" Satan durring a ritual, otherwise the only ones who "summon" are Theists, and even then it's not that often. Most demon summoning I know of is for 'menial' tasks, whatever that is.
3. No, we have no such text. However for atheists The Satanic Bible (1969) written by Anton LaVey and the Satanic Scriptures (90s?) written by Peter H. Gilmore lay a lot of beliefs for self-described "modern satanists". Theistic Satanism is more akin to several eclectic religions.
4. I personally have no idea, but I know of some wack-jobs who claim that angels will attack people.
5. No idea what other people think, but I would assume that most spirits are neutral and like people. Also as well I believe Satan is more of a neutral force and energy that works both on a large scale and a smaller scale. Once I believe I was in his direct presence more or less, and it was simply pure primal energy emanating from the spot that he stood. As for demons, I believe they are just another word for spirits, or that is, the souls of dead people that found a way to live on.
You will probably find very little similarities between the Abrahamic faiths and any form of Satanism.
I wish you would refrain from using the term "devil worshiper" as you always try to apply your very narrow definition to it.
last note @ Mindmaster:
Some Satanists believe that the "Hebrew" god exists in some way, but that he's just simply a rouge/random jerk as opposed to the true creator god. If one is a polytheist it somewhat makes sense to at least acknowledge that he might exist in some way (minus claims about salvation, creating the world, yada yada of course).
Orias
Left Hand Path
I'm just going to point out I have a particular problem with your questions, that being that they are generalized. I don't want to speak for any other person that says he is a Satanist or even for what other people say it is.
I will tell you what I believe.
Satan is more like a word than an actual being, its like my name that pertains to my being. In a way, we are all Satan.
So I guess that kind of makes Him a God, or me a God, or maybe it even makes God a God.
Who knows
I believe they can be "summoned" and interacted with, but I also believe that you have to believe in something for it to be.
I have several college size notebooks full of writings and observation though I am sure none of them would appeal to anyone else.
What you're looking for is a meaning to give Satan a common name, which is impossible unless you accept yourself as one.
No, I don't believe in exorcisms, I believe in people being stupid and grotesque oppression.
Spirit flows through everything, angels and demons are the same but exist in accord to judgement of a characteristic.
I'm a schizotype with a borderline personality, but I'm nice if you're not fake.
In a way, we all exist in service of something perhaps greater than ourselves, but I strive to serve my own self. For I only will to become "greater" than I currently am.
Good and bad exists solely to function the human premise, in the world outside of us they don't exist, though they collide frequently.
There is nothing that is completely unnatural, since everything exists and coincides with nature and that which was created by it.
If you mean more competent and willing individuals, then I would say yes they have "servants".
I will tell you what I believe.
Satan is more like a word than an actual being, its like my name that pertains to my being. In a way, we are all Satan.
So I guess that kind of makes Him a God, or me a God, or maybe it even makes God a God.
Who knows
I believe they can be "summoned" and interacted with, but I also believe that you have to believe in something for it to be.
I have several college size notebooks full of writings and observation though I am sure none of them would appeal to anyone else.
What you're looking for is a meaning to give Satan a common name, which is impossible unless you accept yourself as one.
No, I don't believe in exorcisms, I believe in people being stupid and grotesque oppression.
Spirit flows through everything, angels and demons are the same but exist in accord to judgement of a characteristic.
I'm a schizotype with a borderline personality, but I'm nice if you're not fake.
In a way, we all exist in service of something perhaps greater than ourselves, but I strive to serve my own self. For I only will to become "greater" than I currently am.
Good and bad exists solely to function the human premise, in the world outside of us they don't exist, though they collide frequently.
There is nothing that is completely unnatural, since everything exists and coincides with nature and that which was created by it.
If you mean more competent and willing individuals, then I would say yes they have "servants".
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Really what keeps me from believing any of it is the incessant lies. Most of the stories of the bible were borrowed from the myths of other cultures and anyone doing a little research can determine where.
He exists in the way of an imaginary friend; which is OK if you still believe in Santa. I don't believe anything but am aware of angels, demons, spirits, etc... Did I mention I was a weird kid?
Orias
Left Hand Path
In a way I guess I kind of believe in Mot, the Canaanite God of death which eventually rises to the position of "Almighty" according to some scholars.
F0uad
Well-Known Member
I don't fully understand you said there are Angels and Demons.. are they Equal and do they have a certain amount of power that humans do not have?
Also could you describe the angels and demons as good & evil? If so would you describe Satan ''The Energy'' or ''Us'' as evil?
Thanks everyone for your great responses.
Well apologies, but truth over comfort. I respectfully do not care what you wish regarding this; Satanism and Devil Worshiping are quite separate. Just as Luciferianism and Satanism are different. Devil Worshipers are Christian, and why you are so eager to be on the same level as Christians is beyond me. Things like MindMaster calling himself a Devil Worshiping madman is different, and quite funny haha. When you once posted about calling yourself a devil worshiper, all I could think about is how Satanism has become all about shock value these days. You know, for a fact, that if you call yourself a devil worshiper you will be feared. Why care about those people's opinions in the first place? Call yourself a Satanist, it's what you are. Some will still show fear, others will be intrigued, and some will not even blink.
Devil Worshiping is rare, almost nonexistent. It is the belief that God is all loving and all forgiving, and Satan is the ruler of the earth. To avoid Hell you please Satan and God forgives you for the acts. They very much believe Christian mythology, and why you would want to seem like an inverted Christian is beyond me. I hope to never seem Christian at all!
It's kind of like wearing an inverted cross. Yeah, you'll shock people and get attention, but that's not what it's about and you're actually wearing a symbol that is very respectful of Christian mythology; a symbol saying that you are not even worthy to be crucified the same way as Christ.
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To me, Satanism isn't necessarily about opposing another religion just for the sake of it. I have no problem with what others believe as long as it's not used as a weapon against those who believe differently. So my issue would more with religious fanatics of all stripes. After all, I do not want any authority over me or coercion against me, personally.
When it comes to Christianity, I really don't like how the Bible portrays "god". Very nasty character, that one. But how I can "disobey" this figure when I don't necessarily believe it exists? It may exist as a concept that has been personified by its followers, but then my issue would be with the followers of it who have tyrannical mindsets - not with this "god" itself.
However, if this being does exist, then I do have a problem with it. Same goes for all the other "gods" who are anti-human freedom and human nature.
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Does this stuff help you sleep at night? There is no such thing as an inverted Christian you either are down with the Devil or sucking up to Jehovah or Jesus. There are people who LIE and say that they were in with Satan at some point and go back to Christianity are just that liars. There is no going back... Whatever you really are or happen to be you cannot 'convert' you just 'are'. Why would I want to avoid hell if there was one? (which, I currently doubt... but anyway) Heaven = butt kissing, eternal servitude, and supposedly full of the most annoying people to inhabit my reality when they die. Yes, despite the fact that Christians believe priests can forgive you God does not (or, so says their bible) so once you cross the line you aren't coming back. I made sure I crossed the line a lot just in case... haha!
Devil worshiping is not rare its just way underground -- devil worshipers existed before the atheists and we'll last long after they run out of black makeup and nail polish. I figured if I didn't speak for myself other people will. There is enough rumors running around about us. We do meet informally... certain music shows, artists, and other things... You'll never know we're there...
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Infinitum
Possessed Bookworm
I'm not familiar with the current situation, only the history, but traditionally speaking Doors is actually right. In the beginning of the first or second century there was a group of Christians who believed it was safer to try to keep Satan happy than try to please God, because Satan was more likely to send you to Hell than God who, as Doors said, was all-forgiving.
I can't remember what the sect was called and I don't have my source anywhere close right now, but I'll look it up the next time I can.
I can't remember what the sect was called and I don't have my source anywhere close right now, but I'll look it up the next time I can.
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I'm really curious as to where they came up with that idea.
God himself apparently was all about the butt kicking and vengeance back in the day. Plagues, demand of sacrifices, blowing up towns.. etc.. There are quite of view little branches to the tree, I am familiar with:1) Traditional Satanists (aka me) -- May believe there is a Satan and God and choose to follow Satan. They generally do not believe in the legitimacy of the bible, or any Christian/Hebrew teachings. The Devil is in the details -- its not just about being down with the Devil its much more. Rebellion, freedom, and individuality are common focuses and they're as far left as you can be. These Satanists do not use the worship word in the Christian sense -- it simply means devotion. None of the typical mental slavery jazz applies. LHP through and through. There isn't even a blind faith component.
2) Christians that were pantheists -- they worshiped several different 'beings' in their own pantheon. They still had traditional Christian philosophy. It wasn't odd back in the day for the Christians to be worshiping both their God and the native Gods on the way back. The still adhered to a normal RHP paradigm (self-denial, sin, servitude, etc..) Worship in their sense means dogma, following, slavery, rejection of the self, etc... This has nothing to do with our way of course. They are still licking Jesus' boot. (assuming there was such a person.. )
Orias
Left Hand Path
There is a difference between "sameness" and being an equal.
Angels in demons are far from equal, but they are the same.
They are neither good nor evil, because they all serve for the blight of man.
In these terms, everything that is manifested is done on a level beyond the purity of good and evil, but rather survival.
jasonwill2
Well-Known Member
You didn't get the intent of the post then, and you still do not now. You take things too literally and totally missed the point, which I will repeat for about the 4th or 5th time to you: I WAS TRYING TO SAY THAT THERE IS NO FIXED DEFINITION OF THE TERM, THAT NO ONE AGREES ON IT, AND SO IT MAKES NO SENSE TO LUMP ANY ONE NEGATIVE DEFINITION INTO IT SINCE 99% OF THE WORLD DOESN'T CARE FOR THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN SATANIST AND DEVIL WORSHIPER, MUCH LESS DEVIL WORSHIPER AND THEISTIC SATANIST, WHICH I AM. End of rant.
The only thing like this I am aware of was the Yezidz guys who sucked up to Satan to avoid being tormented on Earth, and then before they died the last rites would get em' forgiven. But that was hardly worship and more like a hostage situation from their point of view lol.
Doors is more talking along the lines of a very specific sect.
Doors you are aware for example that Peter Gilmore calls all Theistic Satanists Devil Worshipers? I also know Satanists that call themselves Devil Worshipers, and I also have never heard anyone else you use your definition.
Also as well calling myself a Devil worshiper makes me NO MORE FEARED then calling myself a Satanist. Seriously man, get into the real world, no one outside of squabbling Satanists care for the distinction because to the entire world it's the damn same thing. Now if a Satanist is an atheist it makes sense to not be called a Devil Worshiper, but Theists are fair game to take or lose the term. There isn't any set definition to it, just a bunch of Satanists trying to label the other Satanists they do not like with it.
Haha, no kidding Jason. Totally in agreement there. As far as Jews, Muslims, Christians, and the rest are concerned if you are an Atheist or Satanist you are going to the same place. I use the term personally because I feel it is accurate and because I feel I have an 'active' not 'symbolic' relationship with Satan. Most outsiders get confused about believing something exists and believing in it. For example I believe there is a Hebrew god but he is and enslaver of humanity and propagator of lies. Thus, he is fake to me, a deceiver, and object of scorn. I do not believe anything in the bible because it was written by men to deceive other men. The idea that Satan/Lucifer was a fallen angel was written by someone who stood to profit by old Jehovah being venerated. Always consider the source... Jury is out with me on Jesus completely since there seems to be no proof that he existed and lots of his 'stories' were lifted from the myths of other cultures. Blasphemy is entertaining to say the least regardless of these facts.
Actually, MindMaster makes a good point, and I see why Traditional Satanists could be considered Devil Worshipers. As for Satanic squabbiling, I am not a Satanist. I never saw the appeal of allowing any Christian influence in. Like MindMaster says he believes in the hebrew god, I can't figure out why. But it is a personal choice that I have no place questioning.
As for the Yazidi and Satan, what you claimed is incorrect. They were not hostages to Satan... They believe nothing of the sorts. If you were to label them as Satanic, MAYBE Traditional Satanism. But they are complicated and probably wouldn't agree. Stop listening to LaVeys pseudo-history of Satanism. He's a fool.
As for the Yazidi and Satan, what you claimed is incorrect. They were not hostages to Satan... They believe nothing of the sorts. If you were to label them as Satanic, MAYBE Traditional Satanism. But they are complicated and probably wouldn't agree. Stop listening to LaVeys pseudo-history of Satanism. He's a fool.
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jasonwill2
Well-Known Member
Unless you have an actual perception of said relationship in which case it is no longer symbolic and it becomes as real as a relationship with a friend, family member, or a wife.
Certainly, there is symbolism that most people have affinities for and I am no different but mistaking the symbolism for the thing is like saying a photograph of a person IS that person. YMMV with that idea, but as you can see it very different from 'Modern Satanism' whom is merely concerned with the appearances.To Doors:
I have no belief in the 'Hebrew god' I am just aware of it like you are aware of your bad neighbors. This awareness has nothing to do with any other concept really and is sort of a result of years of destroying my inhibitions and becoming receptive to the information. Needless to say the beneficent Jehovah in the bible doesn't exist, but one does exist and it seems to be a rather nasty creature.
Orias
Left Hand Path
All forms of expression involve the use of symbolism, even in real relationships symbols are still used design and pinpoint the greater meanings of an actual perception.
It doesn't have to be extreme though most often is, in the end symbolism is something that is purely reflective upon how much one uses them.
It doesn't have to be extreme though most often is, in the end symbolism is something that is purely reflective upon how much one uses them.