Right. This is why it is basically the first text one studies of NT Greek. It was the one I first studied. I think the problem here is the vagueness of English not being able to translate the specificity of Greek.
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True on both scores. It's the first Christian scriptural text any student learning NT Greek is taught to read because its structure is incredibly simple and thus a great entry route into the harder stuff.
The most difficult NT texts to read in their original Greek are the Epistle to the Hebrews (very sophisticated grammar, syntax and vocabulary, lots of complicated wordplays) and Luke-Acts, as well as a few others of the non-Pauline letters.
cataway
Well-Known Member
when ya realize and except that there was a point in time when the God wanted to bring things into existence . was that the beginning of time ?? no not really ,time can be positive and negative . that is if you are looking back or forward.It's the NIV. Not all Bibles were lucky enough to have been made by the JWs...
So would you answer the first part of the question by saying that the Word was in fact, created after time began?
the bible reveals that the Word /Jesus was the very first thing that God caused to come into existence. after that God through the Word/Jesus caused all other thing to come into existence . as great as the Word/Jesus is he is not as great as the one that caused him to become, that's why Jesus is known to be the lesser one in the heavens.
Well, it says "in the beginning". You say that time has no beginning? Is time infinite in essence in the same way that God is?
cataway
Well-Known Member
it refers to the beginning of God's creative works. how long ago that was is impossible to calculate.
A. Kneeland - Universalism
Wiki R Young: and the Word was a god vs R Young Literal Translation - 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God; - one isn't correct. John 1:1 - YLT - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was...
Joseph Smith.. Mormon
A counter to your position:
John 1:1
I'll put it a different way: is God above time? Or, is time just as infinite as God?
cataway
Well-Known Member
so many bibles and also people want to make Jesus equal to his God . Jesus did not do that nor does He want you to do that, Jesus said; You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I am. john 14 :28
John opens up with: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
I don't quite understand this. Clearly the author of the book is trying to parallel this with the opening of Genesis "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." However, Genesis opens up with stating that first time itself began/came into being - i.e. there was a beginning ("In the beginning"). Next, the verse makes mention of God. Where did God come from? That's not stated, but as God was already there at the beginning and we don't know where He came from, it's inferred that He was there before the beginning.
In John, however, things appear to be different:
First there's a beginning - much like in Genesis ("In the beginning") - but then says "was the Word" - as I understand, "was" is a word that denotes coming into existence - that is, the Word came into being after time began. Yet then we are told "...and the Word was God." - if in Genesis we are made to infer that God was before time began, and here the Word was - came into being - after time began, how then can the Word be God? And how then can it be said in the next verse "He was with God in the beginning."? One entity was pre-time and the other post-time.
I hope this makes sense...
space/time can only be understood in respect to something vs something else, point a vs point b, a measurement of two seemingly polarities. without the dual illusion there is no measurement. without the illusion of duality, it's infinite. before the word(john), before god said(genesis). there was the uncreated creator. the silence. the still small voice that elijah heard in the mountain. 1 Kings 19:11-13
silence transcends space/time revelation 8:1
strange world
david danced
harpocrates
psalms 46:10
NOW shhhh
cataway
Well-Known Member
time is just a unit of measurement
So, you differentiate between God and the Word? You view the Word as something post-time?
So time is an artificial construct?
Samael_Khan
Goosebender
As far as I understand this is a written language issue. One cannot interpret a verse differently just because someone thinks that it contradicts the rest of the book. Rather leave translation to the professionals. So if the verse says that Jesus is equal to God in the original language then so be it.
no everything arises from the one. only the form is destroyed. energy cannot be created/destroyed it only changes form, transforms. that form is a change in vibration/energy
everything, all forms, comes from and returns to that from whence it came. ecclesiastes 12:7
it all comes back to the name at exodus 3:14
pantheism
as also understood in AUM.
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cataway
Well-Known Member
yep our time is earth related .
That I know. But that doesn't mean that time wasn't created by God. Do you hold it was created by man?
apology for interrupting
yes, a measurement of form against other form. it is an illusion. there is no "empty" space. space isn't empty. everything is ONE solid having different levels of vibration/energy, different level of energy/vibration = forms.
in science these vibrations can be understood as harmonic waves
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Time does not existJohn opens up with: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
I don't quite understand this. Clearly the author of the book is trying to parallel this with the opening of Genesis "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." However, Genesis opens up with stating that first time itself began/came into being - i.e. there was a beginning ("In the beginning"). Next, the verse makes mention of God. Where did God come from? That's not stated, but as God was already there at the beginning and we don't know where He came from, it's inferred that He was there before the beginning.
In John, however, things appear to be different:
First there's a beginning - much like in Genesis ("In the beginning") - but then says "was the Word" - as I understand, "was" is a word that denotes coming into existence - that is, the Word came into being after time began. Yet then we are told "...and the Word was God." - if in Genesis we are made to infer that God was before time began, and here the Word was - came into being - after time began, how then can the Word be God? And how then can it be said in the next verse "He was with God in the beginning."? One entity was pre-time and the other post-time.
I hope this makes sense...
it is not a force or substance
there was no place to come from or go to
no light...no shadow
no heat ….no cold
the mystery you are trying to point to...….
how to say I AM!
when there seems to be no means to do so
Someone had to be First
cataway
Well-Known Member
if i may but in . there was a time before the most high God created anything . soooo long ago we may not have a number that describes it.
how long did God think about it before he took action? piff, its not even possible for us to contemplate it .