Question on the Concept of Hell

[Otherright]

I have a question on the concept of hell. Is hell an Athenian dualistic influence on Christianity? It is clear that the Judeo-Christian concept of hell did not predate Christianity? Was this injected as a need to placate Athenian dualism?

 

[jojo50]

History of Hell “The Teutonic Goddess of the Dead and daughter of Loki was named Hel, a Pagan god of torture and punishment. Another "L" was added when the books of the Old Testament were formulated4. The prophets who wrote the Bible did not know the word "Hell"; they used the Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades, which meant the grave; also the Greek Tartaros, Gehenna, which was a valley near Jerusalem where Moloch reigned and garbage was dumped and burned. It is from this that the Christian Church has evolved the idea of "fire and brimstone" in Hell.

Plutarch (46-125CE) and the early Christians viewed hell as a symbolic place. It was only over time that Christianity became the literalistic belief system that it is now, initially all of its teachings were either Roman Mystery religion or Jewish in origin.
The Valley of Hinnom was a place where sinners were actually burnt, the hell that the pagan religions believed in was a symbolic place (where those who died went), used to persuade people to behave better, and the Jews had little actual teachings on the concept of Hell.

The result was that Christianity, a religion that was popular amongst the illiterate and undereducated in the Roman empire, lost its inner symbolic nature and became seen as an actual real place where sinners were punished forever, after death
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

this is what two Godly men of old had to say concerning "hell"...
(1).Psa.16:8-11- shows David ,(a faithful man) ,talking about God not leaving his soul in hell, not even to see corruption, (decaying). Notice David saying… “my flesh also shall rest in hope“ (if the false teachings of hell was a place demons torture the wicked and sinners, why would David say “his flesh shall rest? Hell wouldn‘t be in a place of resting).

(2).Psa.139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. (David prays again to God, now if hell is a place where demons resides, God touches nothing unclean. hell would be considered by God unclean, why would God be there? Again why would he let a faithful servant go there)?

(3).Jonah 2:1,2- Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,
And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.( was Jonah being tortured by demons?, was there fire in the fish belly?…no!)

hell is ONLY man's grave. Jehovhah's words shows when one dies,their sins are paid for,(Rom.-6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord). if that's true,then why would a loving God,basically turn right around and say...ok you're clean of your sins,but you STILL gotta go to a place where you BELIEVE demons live! makes NO sense,and the lies will soon stop. peace

 

[outhouse]

History of Hell “The Teutonic Goddess of the Dead and daughter of Loki was named Hel, a Pagan god of torture and punishment. Another "L" was added when the books of the Old Testament were formulated4. The prophets who wrote the Bible did not know the word "Hell"; they used the Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades, which meant the grave; also the Greek Tartaros, Gehenna, which was a valley near Jerusalem where Moloch reigned and garbage was dumped and burned. It is from this that the Christian Church has evolved the idea of "fire and brimstone" in Hell.

Plutarch (46-125CE) and the early Christians viewed hell as a symbolic place. It was only over time that Christianity became the literalistic belief system that it is now, initially all of its teachings were either Roman Mystery religion or Jewish in origin.
The Valley of Hinnom was a place where sinners were actually burnt, the hell that the pagan religions believed in was a symbolic place (where those who died went), used to persuade people to behave better, and the Jews had little actual teachings on the concept of Hell.

The result was that Christianity, a religion that was popular amongst the illiterate and undereducated in the Roman empire, lost its inner symbolic nature and became seen as an actual real place where sinners were punished forever, after death
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

this is what two Godly men of old had to say concerning "hell"...
(1).Psa.16:8-11- shows David ,(a faithful man) ,talking about God not leaving his soul in hell, not even to see corruption, (decaying). Notice David saying… “my flesh also shall rest in hope“ (if the false teachings of hell was a place demons torture the wicked and sinners, why would David say “his flesh shall rest? Hell wouldn‘t be in a place of resting).

(2).Psa.139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. (David prays again to God, now if hell is a place where demons resides, God touches nothing unclean. hell would be considered by God unclean, why would God be there? Again why would he let a faithful servant go there)?

(3).Jonah 2:1,2- Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,
And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.( was Jonah being tortured by demons?, was there fire in the fish belly?…no!)

hell is ONLY man's grave. Jehovhah's words shows when one dies,their sins are paid for,(Rom.-6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord). if that's true,then why would a loving God,basically turn right around and say...ok you're clean of your sins,but you STILL gotta go to a place where you BELIEVE demons live! makes NO sense,and the lies will soon stop. peace

excellent


if you could post a link next time showing your source you'd get a a A+ instead of a A

 

[Desert Snake]

History of Hell “The Teutonic Goddess of the Dead and daughter of Loki was named Hel, a Pagan god of torture and punishment. Another "L" was added when the books of the Old Testament were formulated4. The prophets who wrote the Bible did not know the word "Hell"; they used the Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades, which meant the grave; also the Greek Tartaros, Gehenna, which was a valley near Jerusalem where Moloch reigned and garbage was dumped and burned. It is from this that the Christian Church has evolved the idea of "fire and brimstone" in Hell.

Plutarch (46-125CE) and the early Christians viewed hell as a symbolic place. It was only over time that Christianity became the literalistic belief system that it is now, initially all of its teachings were either Roman Mystery religion or Jewish in origin.
The Valley of Hinnom was a place where sinners were actually burnt, the hell that the pagan religions believed in was a symbolic place (where those who died went), used to persuade people to behave better, and the Jews had little actual teachings on the concept of Hell.

The result was that Christianity, a religion that was popular amongst the illiterate and undereducated in the Roman empire, lost its inner symbolic nature and became seen as an actual real place where sinners were punished forever, after death
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

this is what two Godly men of old had to say concerning "hell"...
(1).Psa.16:8-11- shows David ,(a faithful man) ,talking about God not leaving his soul in hell, not even to see corruption, (decaying). Notice David saying… “my flesh also shall rest in hope“ (if the false teachings of hell was a place demons torture the wicked and sinners, why would David say “his flesh shall rest? Hell wouldn‘t be in a place of resting).

(2).Psa.139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. (David prays again to God, now if hell is a place where demons resides, God touches nothing unclean. hell would be considered by God unclean, why would God be there? Again why would he let a faithful servant go there)?

(3).Jonah 2:1,2- Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,
And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.( was Jonah being tortured by demons?, was there fire in the fish belly?…no!)

hell is ONLY man's grave. Jehovhah's words shows when one dies,their sins are paid for,(Rom.-6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord). if that's true,then why would a loving God,basically turn right around and say...ok you're clean of your sins,but you STILL gotta go to a place where you BELIEVE demons live! makes NO sense,and the lies will soon stop. peace

I'm not sure what the references are implying.

 

[outhouse]

I'm not sure what the references are implying.

how hell evolved into what you think you know about it today

 

[Desert Snake]

how hell evolved into what you think you know about it today

According to who?

 

[outhouse]

According to who?

historians and scholars

and anyone else who has half a education inbiblical history


Its all in the bible if you read it.

 

[Desert Snake]

The interpretations. Whose interpretations. If it's "all in the bible" then present the verses.

 

[outhouse]

The interpretations. Whose interpretations. If it's "all in the bible" then present the verses.

its not my job to teach you history

but you can "wiki hell" and read that


if you want to learn it and form a opinion. I would love then to debate it with you

 

[Mister Emu]

I've always been told it stems from a Zoroastrian influence on Judaism...

if the false teachings of hell was a place demons torture the wicked and sinner

Who so teaches?

hell is ONLY man's grave. Jehovhah's words shows when one dies,their sins are paid for,(Rom.-6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord). if that's true,then why would a loving God,basically turn right around and say...ok you're clean of your sins,but you STILL gotta go to a place where you BELIEVE demons live! makes NO sense,and the lies will soon stop. peace

Hell is a different place than the lake of fire, but the two are conflated in common usage. Arguing that hell is the grave doesn't address the issues at all, because calling the lake of fire "hell" is only done for convenience.

 

[Desert Snake]

its not my job to teach you history

but you can "wiki hell" and read that


if you want to learn it and form a opinion. I would love then to debate it with you

That post is full of someones intrpretations... you cannot present the

biblical verses to back up those assertations. And your response is

"wiki" it... So you have no verses, cannot provide a source for said

interpretations.


you have no argument.

 

[outhouse]

That post is full of someones intrpretations... you cannot present the

biblical verses to back up those assertations. And your response is

"wiki" it... So you have no verses, cannot provide a source for said

interpretations.


you have no argument.

I have plenty, a complete description of how hell evolved.

it is you that has no arguement

maybe you think hell is the red devil with horns and a pitchfork standing over a gap in the lave tormenting sinners

 

[Desert Snake]

Then why don't you present your opinion?

 

[outhouse]

I've always been told it stems from a Zoroastrian influence on Judaism...


Who so teaches?


Hell is a different place than the lake of fire, but the two are conflated in common usage. Arguing that hell is the grave doesn't address the issues at all, because calling the lake of fire "hell" is only done for convenience.

I believe the lake of fire to be confusion that started with gehenna.

[I know you know this but for our new folks]

Hell started with Sheol which ment grave or pit, it was later translated to hades the greek myth of the underworld.

Gehenna or the valley of hinom, was also used. It is said to be a garbage dump that burned 24/7 and sinners bodies were said to have been burned. At night it was said to look like a lake of fire. [also had a gate one had to go through on th epath to the dump]


Not until the NT comes around do you get the transformation of sheol,hades, gehenna into hell. that was a 1000 year evolution from grave or dirt pit into a lake of fire. lets not forget tartarus a mythical place where angels souls are said to wait. Hell evolved for hundreds of years after the NT until now we get a red devil with horns and a ptchfork

 

[fallingblood]

I have a question on the concept of hell. Is hell an Athenian dualistic influence on Christianity? It is clear that the Judeo-Christian concept of hell did not predate Christianity? Was this injected as a need to placate Athenian dualism?

Zoroastrianism, and their idea of dualism, did have an influence on how hell would later develop, partially because it was the influence of Zoroastrianism that helped in the formation of Satan, as he is now seen. Athenian dualism may have helped influence the concept of hell; however, the big influence here would be Zoroastrianism.

The history of hell is somewhat complicated. Before Christianity, there were Jewish sects that began having an idea of what we could call proto-hell. At the same time, in the history of Judaism, some didn't believe in an afterlife at all.

Coming more towards the first century, we do begin seeing some ideas of proto-hell and Satan really taking form. There were those who believed the evil would burn in Gehenna or at least was the destination for the wicked.

So there was some foundation that the Christians later built on, but they did really change the concept of hell over the years. Even today, the concept is still changing. A popular concept is that hell is just a distance from God. The fire and brimstone have been removed, at least for some denominations. I would wager that this concept will eventually replace the older concept of fire and brimstone.

 

[Otherright]

Hell is a different place than the lake of fire, but the two are conflated in common usage. Arguing that hell is the grave doesn't address the issues at all, because calling the lake of fire "hell" is only done for convenience.

But in Judaism, there is no concept of hell, only Sheol, the grave. What I'm wondering is if it has a dualist philosophy attachment to it.

The Athenians are responsible for Dualism as a philosophical idea. Well, sort of. Neurologically, we are wired for dualism. Night and Day. Good and Evil. Salt and Pepper. These are all dualistic ideas.

Before the concept of hell, the Judeo-Christian afterlife wasn't dualistic. It was Heaven or Sheol. Given the obvious Athenian influence on the New Testament, it just seems like their concept of dualism crept in there.

 

[fallingblood]

But in Judaism, there is no concept of hell, only Sheol, the grave. What I'm wondering is if it has a dualist philosophy attachment to it.

The Athenians are responsible for Dualism as a philosophical idea. Well, sort of. Neurologically, we are wired for dualism. Night and Day. Good and Evil. Salt and Pepper. These are all dualistic ideas.

Before the concept of hell, the Judeo-Christian afterlife wasn't dualistic. It was Heaven or Sheol. Given the obvious Athenian influence on the New Testament, it just seems like their concept of dualism crept in there.

Dualism did creep in there, but it was based off of Zoroastrianism.

And Judaism did have somewhat of an idea of hell before christianity. Judaism as a whole did not agree on it, but then again, Judaism was quite diverse.

 

[Otherright]

Dualism did creep in there, but it was based off of Zoroastrianism.

And Judaism did have somewhat of an idea of hell before christianity. Judaism as a whole did not agree on it, but then again, Judaism was quite diverse.

See, the reason why I would think that it was based on Athenian dualism, is because the oldest copies we have of the NT are Greek in origin. I'm not saying with certainty, it just seems like the most probable source to me.

 

[Desert Snake]

See, the reason why I would think that it was based on Athenian dualism, is because the oldest copies we have of the NT are Greek in origin. I'm not saying with certainty, it just seems like the most probable source to me.

Could be that with even later cultural influences...?

 

[Otherright]

Could be that with even later cultural influences...?

Elaborate please.