Question for Muslims

[john313]

Peace or others,

Can you tell me how you can rationalize that the writings of one man (Mohammed) can be the infallible word of god?

I read some of the posts about Oral Tradition, and I understand the contention that Mohammed was illiterate and could not have written the Koran on his own.

It is very suspect when an entire religion is based on the word of one man, very hard to prove infallible.

Sabio

Salaam,
actually Islam is based on the teachings of ALL prophets of God, that includes Jesus, John the Baptist, Abraham, Noah, Adam, Elijah, Lot,...... What you call "the writings of one man" are actually the words brought by Jibra'il and the same teachings of all the prophets if you look at the real teachings of the prophets and history. It is incorrect to believe that Islam is only based on the words of one man. there were 124,000 prophets of God, although they are not all listed in the Quran.
Insha'Allah this helped answer your question if it was truly a question

 

[john313]

1) My point is that stories are always invented about great people of history. Is it possible that some if not all of these stories are legend, especially since they did not make it into the Qur’an itself as you might expect they would?

Anything is possible, but the Quran is not just a book about miracles. It is unfortunate that people have to see a miracle to follow the truth.
it does not matter if they are true or if they were falsified after his death. the stories do not change his message. he taught the truth whether or not he performed these miracles.

 

[Sabio]

Salaam,
actually Islam is based on the teachings of ALL prophets of God, that includes Jesus, John the Baptist, Abraham, Noah, Adam, Elijah, Lot,...... What you call "the writings of one man" are actually the words brought by Jibra'il and the same teachings of all the prophets if you look at the real teachings of the prophets and history. It is incorrect to believe that Islam is only based on the words of one man. there were 124,000 prophets of God, although they are not all listed in the Quran.
Insha'Allah this helped answer your question if it was truly a question

John, If I understand correctly you are saying that Jibra'il (an angel) appeared to Mohammed the prophet and gave him all of the words contained in the Qu'ran?

What does Islam teach as to the origin of Angels, is the basis for this belief in the Qu'ran, or another source?

On another note, do you know why Islam is on a Lunar calendar rather than a Solar calendar?

Sabio

 

[Sabio]

Anything is possible, but the Quran is not just a book about miracles. It is unfortunate that people have to see a miracle to follow the truth.
it does not matter if they are true or if they were falsified after his death. the stories do not change his message. he taught the truth whether or not he performed these miracles.

Sorry I left one of my questions out.

Do you know what was the basis for Islam before the Qu'ran was written? Was there some other book that was used before that?

Sabio

 

[john313]

John, If I understand correctly you are saying that Jibra'il (an angel) appeared to Mohammed the prophet and gave him all of the words contained in the Qu'ran?

What does Islam teach as to the origin of Angels, is the basis for this belief in the Qu'ran, or another source?

On another note, do you know why Islam is on a Lunar calendar rather than a Solar calendar?

Do you know what was the basis for Islam before the Qu'ran was written? Was there some other book that was used before that?


Sabio

salaam,
-The verses of the Quran were revealed over a period of time, not all at once. Jibra'il(Gabriel) appeared to the Prophet and told him to "recite".
25:32 "Those who reject Faith say: "Why is not the Qur'an revealed to him all at once? Thus (is it revealed), that We may strengthen thy heart thereby, and We have rehearsed it to them in slow, well-arranged stages, gradually."
-The angels were created by God before the humans. they were created from light, as humans were created from earth.
-I am not sure why the lunar calendar is used, i am guessing that is more of a cultural thing than a religious one. the lunar calendar was used prior to Muhammad and there was no need to change it. i have never researched this though.
-Before the Quran there were the teachings of all the other prophets, there was the torah, the tanakh, the gospels(not the pauline gospels of the bible), and whatever other teachings and traditions they had from the prophets. there were also many people that followed Jesus, John the Baptist, James the Just and the like that had to flee from the Romans after the fall of the temple and the murder of James, their teachings and traditions carried on with their descendents and many of their essene, nazarene, rechabite traditions/customs are part of Islam. Their teachings shine through in the Dead Sea Scrolls which were found near Qumran, near where these 'jewish-christians' or Muslims as i see it supposedly fled after the fall of Jerusalem.
if anyone can touch up on anything i missed or did not answer completely please do so
let me know if i did not answer your questions well enough and i will try to add to it insha'Allah.
wa salaam,

Jeremiah

 

[Zxzyx]

A Reminder

This forum is for education and also for discussion amongst those that hold the faith specified.

Some of the "questions" I see and the comments made are not clearly within that purpose.

Pah

There is not an area set up for debating Islam or the Qur’an on this site that I can find.

Does this rule apply to discussions on all religion because there are people from all walks of life on the Christian section who i'm sure are all welcome?

There is a Biblical debating section.

I feel the same as Sabio in that I also am looking for an understanding of Islam. I am really interested to hear the reasoning behind this faith.

 

[Zxzyx]

Not any more unbelievable than "And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed" (Joshua 10:13). The relative absence of miracles in the Qur'an makes me think that it is more reliable than lots of other sacred books.

I did not say it was unbelievable I just asked if we have records of the moon splitting from round the world since everyone would have been able to see it with the naked eye. They say that the tides are dictated by the moon’s orbit of the earth so were there any reports of unusual tides at this time. Do you believe that only Muhammad and those he was talking to saw this miracle because the whole planet should have been able to see this one.

I read that people who have tried to date things and work out the time of events of long ago have often come up with a missing day. No matter how they do their equations there is always a discrepancy of one day. I’m not saying this research is true or not but its is just interesting since if a miracle involving things like planets and such happened it would probably effect the whole world.

 

[Sabio]

salaam,
-The verses of the Quran were revealed over a period of time, not all at once. Jibra'il(Gabriel) appeared to the Prophet and told him to "recite".
25:32 "Those who reject Faith say: "Why is not the Qur'an revealed to him all at once? Thus (is it revealed), that We may strengthen thy heart thereby, and We have rehearsed it to them in slow, well-arranged stages, gradually."
-The angels were created by God before the humans. they were created from light, as humans were created from earth.
-I am not sure why the lunar calendar is used, i am guessing that is more of a cultural thing than a religious one. the lunar calendar was used prior to Muhammad and there was no need to change it. i have never researched this though.
-Before the Quran there were the teachings of all the other prophets, there was the torah, the tanakh, the gospels(not the pauline gospels of the bible), and whatever other teachings and traditions they had from the prophets. there were also many people that followed Jesus, John the Baptist, James the Just and the like that had to flee from the Romans after the fall of the temple and the murder of James, their teachings and traditions carried on with their descendents and many of their essene, nazarene, rechabite traditions/customs are part of Islam. Their teachings shine through in the Dead Sea Scrolls which were found near Qumran, near where these 'jewish-christians' or Muslims as i see it supposedly fled after the fall of Jerusalem.
if anyone can touch up on anything i missed or did not answer completely please do so
let me know if i did not answer your questions well enough and i will try to add to it insha'Allah.
wa salaam,

Jeremiah

Thank you fof bearing with me as I try to understand!

Can you tell me what Dar Al Islam, and Dar Al Harb mean?

My understanding of why the lunar calendar is used (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that it was instituted by the pre-Islamic Babylonian religion, those who worshipped the god "Sin", "The Controller of the Night" (also known as "Lord of the Ka'aba" ("cube")) he had the crescent moon as his emblem. Has any of the ancient Babylonian religion (from the time of Abraham) been adopted into Islam, or accepted by Islam?

Sabio

 

[john313]

Thank you fof bearing with me as I try to understand!

Can you tell me what Dar Al Islam, and Dar Al Harb mean?

My understanding of why the lunar calendar is used (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that it was instituted by the pre-Islamic Babylonian religion, those who worshipped the god "Sin", "The Controller of the Night" (also known as "Lord of the Ka'aba" ("cube")) he had the crescent moon as his emblem. Has any of the ancient Babylonian religion (from the time of Abraham) been adopted into Islam, or accepted by Islam?

Sabio

i am not familiar with the terms Dar Al Islam, and Dar Al Harb.
The crescent moon was not originally part of Islam, so that did not carry over from the time before the Prophet.

It wasn't until the Ottoman Empire that the crescent moon and star became affiliated with the Muslim world. When the Turks conquered Constantinople (Istanbul) in 1453, they adopted the city's existing flag and symbol. Legend holds that the founder of the Ottoman Empire, Osman, had a dream in which the crescent moon stretched from one end of the earth to the other. Taking this as a good omen, he chose to keep the crescent and make it the symbol of his dynasty.

The lunar calendar part is doubtful. especially since the Hebrew, Chinese, and Indian calendars are also based on the moon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_calendar

The predecessor to the Islamic calendar was a lunisolar calendar in that it used lunar months but was also kept synchronized with the seasons by the insertion of an additional, intercalary, month when required. Whether the intercalary month (Nasi) was added in the spring like that of the Hebrew calendar or in autumn is debatable. It is assumed that the intercalary month was added between the twelfth month (the month of the pre-Islamic Hajj) and the first month (Muharram) of this pre-Islamic year. The two Rabi' months denote grazing and the modern Meccan rainy season (only slightly less arid than normal), which would promote the growth of grasses for grazing, occurs during autumn. These imply a pre-Islamic year beginning near the autumnal equinox. But the rainy season after which these months are named may have been different when the names originated (before Muhammad's time) or the calendar may have been imported from another region which did have such a rainy season. On the other hand, Muhammad forbade the intercalary month (released the calendar from the seasons) near the end of his life, which implies a pre-Islamic year beginning near the vernal equinox because that is when the modern lunar year began during his last year.

it seems they did use a lunar based calendar prior to Muhammad, but they switched to a purely lunar calendar during his lifetime. it is not related to the worship of any pagan god. No Islamic practices were taken from pagan traditions.

 

[Sabio]

i am not familiar with the terms Dar Al Islam, and Dar Al Harb.
The crescent moon was not originally part of Islam, so that did not carry over from the time before the Prophet.

No Islamic practices were taken from pagan traditions.

My understanding is that the Islamic divisions of the universe are: Dar Al Islam: the domain of the faithful (to Islam) and Dar Al Harb: those with whom they are at war until Judgment Day (all others that are non-Islam). I was wondering if this is correct?

Do you know where the Islamic Crecent Moon symbol came from? Could it have been adopted from the Babylonian religion? (much like the Catholic church adopted some of the pagan symbolism into their church in order to convert them) Did Mohammed seek to convert the pagans?

Thanks again

Sabio

 

[john313]

Do you know where the Islamic Crecent Moon symbol came from? Could it have been adopted from the Babylonian religion? (much like the Catholic church adopted some of the pagan symbolism into their church in order to convert them) Did Mohammed seek to convert the pagans?

Thanks again

Sabio

It wasn't until the Ottoman Empire that the crescent moon and star became affiliated with the Muslim world. When the Turks conquered Constantinople (Istanbul) in 1453, they adopted the city's existing flag and symbol. Legend holds that the founder of the Ottoman Empire, Osman, had a dream in which the crescent moon stretched from one end of the earth to the other. Taking this as a good omen, he chose to keep the crescent and make it the symbol of his dynasty.
the moon was not adopted because of any pagan religion or symbolism.
Muhammad wanted to convert everyone he could. that does not mean he was willing to compromise Islamic ideals to persuade the pagans. He sought to convert them through example.

 

[john313]

My understanding is that the Islamic divisions of the universe are: Dar Al Islam: the domain of the faithful (to Islam) and Dar Al Harb: those with whom they are at war until Judgment Day (all others that are non-Islam). I was wondering if this is correct?

Salaam,
i do not really know much on this, but wikipedia is usually a good source:
"Dar al-Harb (Arabic: "house of war") is a term used in many Islamic countries to refer to those areas outside Muslim rule. In some conservative traditions of Islam the world is divided into two components: dar al-Islam, the "house of submission" or the "house of God", and dar al-Harb, the "house of war": the home of the infidels or unbelievers (Arabic: kufr). The terms are usually understood to refer, respectively, to those lands currently administered by Muslim governments and those administered by non-Muslim governments. The exact definitions of these territories can vary widely according to the viewer's concept of who is and is not a Muslim, and which governments are or are not Muslim in practice."
Based on this i would say: Dar al-Harb does not mean muslims are at war with them, it just refers to the countries that are ruled by non muslim governments.
in reference to what i underlined: some countries who consider themselves muslim are not actually governed by Islamic ideals. a good example is Iraq under Sadaam, america mostly views that as muslim due to our great media here , when real muslims view him as an atrocity. he probably considered himself in dar al-islam, when he was actually part of dar al-harb assuming he was guilty of what has been charged against him(in my opinion of course ). That is not to say that the people of the country are evil like the ruler was. flowers grow out of the mud all the time.
this is just my take on it at this time with very little research.

 

[TashaN]

This moon splitting must have been a worldwide phenomenon! Do you know if we have records from around the world of this event? Astrologers must have had a field day. Do we know if the moon split in two equal halves or a bit broke off? I have read one theory that this prophecy was fulfilled when Neil Armstrong went to the moon and brought a piece back.

I did not say it was unbelievable I just asked if we have records of the moon splitting from round the world since everyone would have been able to see it with the naked eye. They say that the tides are dictated by the moon’s orbit of the earth so were there any reports of unusual tides at this time. Do you believe that only Muhammad and those he was talking to saw this miracle because the whole planet should have been able to see this one.

* Some unreasoning opponents argue that if that incident had taken place, in would have been mentioned in the histories of such nations as the Chinese, the Japanese and Americans. How could they have witnessed it, given that, when this event happened, in addition to other obstacles, it was barely sunset in such European countries as Spain, France and England, which were then enveloped in mists of ignorance, daytime in America and morning in China and Japan. A thousand curses on such toadies and sycophants of Europe!

It was shown in BBC a program where there was a debate between three experts. The discussion was about if the amount of money paid by NASA to send a human to land on the surface of the moon to study the inner structure of the moon was worth it or not?? The American government authorised a budget of $100, 000, 000, 000 (one hundred thousand million dollar) for this project.

One of the discoveries of that project was that there is a layer of material that splits the moon into two halves and the only explanation to this discovery that the moon was split at some times in its history and rejoined !!!!!!!!!!!!! (Subhan Allah)

Do you need more scientific proofs?!?!

The disbelievers will never accept any proof even if it is clear to them and they will turn away from it. Allah descriped in the same verses the reaction of the disbelievers [this also applies to the people of our time] when they get faced with the truth. The sura reads [54:2-8 ] ' And if they see a sign, they turn away, and say: (This is continuous magic) * They belied (the Verses of Allah, this Qur'an), and followed their own lusts. And every matter will be settled [according to the kind of deeds (for the doer of good deeds, his deeds will take him to Paradise, and similarly evil deeds will take their doers to Hell)].* And indeed there has come to them news (in this Qur'an) wherein there is (enough warning) to check (them from evil), * Perfect wisdom (this Qur'an), but (the preaching of) warners benefit them not, * So (O Muhammad SAW) withdraw from them. The Day that the caller will call (them) to a terrible thing. * They will come forth, with humbled eyes from (their) graves as if they were locusts spread abroad, * Hastening towards the caller, the disbelievers will say: 'This is a hard Day.'

a British Muslim young man introduced himself as Daoud Moussa Peetcock head of the British Islamic Party.
He explained saying: At the time when I was searching in religions (before he embraced Islam), a Muslim student gave me as a present the translation of the meaning of Quran. I thanked him and took it home. The first Surat I came across when I opened the book, it was Chapter of the Moon I read "has drawn near, and the moon has been cleft asunder". I said to myself, is this statement logical? Is it possible for the moon to split and then reattach what kind of power may cause this? The man explained that this verse made me reluctant to continue reading. I became busy with my life,yet ALLAH of course Knows how sincere I was about finding the truth.

So,one day ALLAH made me sit to watch TV. It was a talk show between a British commentator and three American astronautics specialists. The show host was blaming the scientists for spending thriftily over space trips at a time when earth is suffering hunger,poverty, diseases and backwardness. He was telling them, it would have been more feasible to allocate this kind of money for reconstruction of earth. To this argument, the three men answered defending their position that such technology is widely applied in many wakes of life such as medicine, industry and agriculture. They added that the money is never wasted but it rather supported the development of highly advanced technology.

During their dialogue, they mentioned the trip in which a man landed on the moon surface as it consumes the the largest cost which comes to more than US $100.000.000.000. The British TV anchor screamed saying what kind of thrift is this? A hundred thousand million dollars just to plant the American flag on the moon surface? They answered no; the objective was not to plant the American flag but rather to study the interior composition of the moon. We actually came to a finding that would cost us double folds of this amount for people to believe and yet they will never believe. The show host inquired what is this fact? They replied: One day this moon was split and then reattached. The show host again probed: how did you realize that? The scientists responded about finding a belt of transformed rocks cutting the moon from its surface to core and then to the surface again. The stated saying: we consulted with earth scientists and geologists who explained that such phenomenon would never occur unless this moon one day split and then reattached.

The British Muslim man said: I jumped out of my chair saying ALLAH (SWT) forced the Americans to spend more than a hundred billion dollars to prove to Muslims a a miracle that took place 1400 years ago for Mohamed (PBUH)? This religion must be the truth. He added: I went back to the Quran and recited Surat Al Qamar, which was my gate for accepting Islam.

The incident relating to King Chakrawati Farmas is documented in an old manuscript in the India Office Library, London, which has reference number: Arabic, 2807, 152-173. It was quoted in the book "Muhammad Rasulullah," by M. Hamidullah:

"There is a very old tradition in Malabar, South-West Coast of India, that Chakrawati Farmas, one of their kings, had observed the splitting of the moon, the celebrated miracle of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) at Mecca, and learning on inquiry that there was a prediction of the coming of a Messanger of God from Arabia (Detail given bellow), he appointed his son as regent and set out to meet him. He embraced Islam at the hand of the Prophet, and when returning home, at the direction of the Prophet, died at the port of Zafar, Yemen, where the tomb of the "Indian king" was piously visited for many centuries."





​

The old manuscript in the 'India Office Library' contains several other details about King Chakrawati Farmas and his travel.


"CHAKRAWATI FARMAS King of Malabar India" by Dr. Z. HAQ at http://cyberistan.org/islamic/farmas.html

I don’t know what to make of the crying tree, could you offer your understanding of it please.

*actually Prophet peace be upon him was standing beside that tree while he recite his speech among muslims and he was putting his arms or shoulder next to it but when people made what we call ( minbar ) in arabic which is a higher place the one stand on it and make his speech from the tree missed prophet Mohammed (PBUH) so then he came to it when it cried and put his hand on it (like when you put your hands on the horse for example) to make the tree calm.

you can check also this link that was posted by michel in another thread.

http://www.islamic-paths.org/Home/English/Muhammad/Other/Miracles.htm#Crying%20of%20the%20stem%20of%20the%20Date-palm%20Tree

Are the other miracles you mentioned in the Qur’an? If not why not?

* because only words of God in the Quran and what other people see of miracles was in separetd book to not be mixed with God's words as we can see in the bible when they mixed words of God, Jesus's words and eye witnesses' words.

 

[TashaN]

My understanding is that the Islamic divisions of the universe are: Dar Al Islam: the domain of the faithful (to Islam) and Dar Al Harb: those with whom they are at war until Judgment Day (all others that are non-Islam). I was wondering if this is correct?

as a matter of fact, these concepts came along after the death of prophet Mohamed by many years during the period of wars between muslims and non-muslim to define the situation of people and stuff.

Dar Al Islam: the domain of the faithful (to Islam) ..... correct

nevertheless, Dar Al Harb: are not those with whom they are at war until Judgment Day but it was only a defintion at that period of time for countries which muslims assume they may fight them anytime ( at that time ) but there are nothing called war until Judgment day in Islam.

i hope that i helped lil bit

 

[Ezzedean]

This argument regarding miracles has come up MANY times since I've become a member of this site. I've said it once before, and I guess it will be said again. Everyone knows the miracles Moses showed for his people, and yet they still turned on him many times, even after seeing these miracles. This ignorance angered Allah. Not only this, but Jesus did the same, his word alone was miracle enough as he had more knowledge than the scholars, not only this, he performed many miracles that should have been enough for people to follow, but yet many didn't.

The Beast, Dajal or Anit-Christ, whatever you want to call it, will perform miracles to convince us. Why will he do this? Because the human being is weak, and clealry all the non believers will see these miracles and truly believe he is God, although he really isnt. The muslims believe that Muhammed spoke the truth. If you recall all the prophets were not leaders or Kings in any way, although Moses lived amongst leaders, he did not become a prophet until he was casted away. Jesus was not a rich man, noah was not a leader or king, neither was Abraham or Muhammed. All of these prophets had the same followers, the poor and the weak, and all of these prophets
INCLUDING Muhammed, won in their fight for God, why? Because God was with them. The only difference between Muhammed and all the previous prophets is the fact that we have historical proof of him. I'd like to point the fact that calls Muhammed "The Mercy of God" as he calls Abraham "The Friend of God, Moses is "The spoken to" and Jesus "The Messiah"...... why would God call Muhammed "The Mercy of Allah"? I feel its because of the historical proof the people have of Muhammed and the things he accomplished in the name of God, I feel he is a mercy to us because it is proof that there is a God, because he did the exact same things all the prophets before him did. I am extremely ill at the moment, so this post isnt written as well as it could be, but I hope you get my point.

I just hope everyone knows, Muhammed Glorifed the name of Jesus, and Moses and Noah and Abraham, along with Ismail and Lot, and many more. He was the seal of the prophets both Nabi and Rasul, because it is taught that all the questions were answered within the Quran.

Peace and Blessings.
Ezzedean