-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Question : Do you beleive that ...
- Thread starter criticizer
- Start date
One of the most basic attributes of Allah is His omnipotence. This means that he is all powerful, and no one - neither man, nor angel, nor Satan - can frustrate His plans or nullify His wishes. It is a simple result of Allah's omnipotence that, as He gave Scripture to man, so He is able to preserve it from corruption by man. That is the very clear teaching of the Quran. The following verses are quite explicit in this:
Perfected is the Word of thy Lord in truth and Justice. There is naught that can change His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.
Sura 6:115
There is no changing the Words of Allah.
Sura 10:64
And recite that which hath been revealed unto thee of the Scripture of Thy Lord. There is none who can change His words, and thou wilt find no refuge beside Him.
Sura 18:27
That Allah should keep His Word uncorrupted is very necessary if we consider His purpose in sending it. Allah sent His Word as a light and a direction for mankind. He would certainly never allow that light to become corrupted. To do so would be to result in the opposite of what He intended. It would lead people away from Allah and into sin and darkness. For Allah to send His Word and command people to obey it but then allow it to be corrupted and become a false guide would result in His leading astray untold millions of sincere believers.
Similarly, to abrogate or set aside His Word without clearly stating that fact and specifying the Scriptures abrogated would also be to lead astray sincere followers. Certainly if Allah had annulled His earlier Scriptures, He would have given clear instruction of that in His Word. Yet, such is totally lacking.
It is because Allah has neither allowed His Word to be corrupted nor annulled that the true believer is commanded to have faith in that Word. The Quran says:
O ye who believe, Believe in Allah and His messenger and the Scripture which He hath revealed unto His messenger, and the Scripture which He revealed aforetime. Whoso disbelieveth in Allah and His angels and His Scriptures and His messengers and the Last Day, he verily hath wandered far astray.
Sura 4:136
But say, I believe in whatever Scripture Allah hath sent down.
Sura 42:15
Lo. Ye are those who love them though they love you not, and ye believe in all the Scripture.
Sura 3:119
Yet, true faith is not just an intellectual assent. Faith also involves a commitment to follow and to obey and to refer to for direction when in doubt. Thus, we find verses such as the following:
Say: O People of the Scripture. Ye have naught (of guidance) till ye observe the Taurat and the Injil and that which was revealed unto you from the Lord.
Sura 5:68
And if thou art in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto thee, then question those who read the Scripture (that was) before thee.
Sura 10:95
Such commands would certainly not have been given had the Taurat and Injil been corrupted or abrogated. Further, the Quran is explicit in describing why the believer should refer to and obey Scriptures such as the Taurat and the Injil. It is because they contain light and direction for Allah's people. Thus:
How come they unto thee for judgment when they have the Taurat, wherein Allah hath delivered judgment? Lo, we did reveal the Taurat, wherein is guidance and a light.
Sura 5:43,44
If the Quran taught that Allah's Word had been changed or abrogated, obviously the above would never have been written. Instead, we would expect the Quran to give clear teaching on that fact and give the Scriptures that were so abrogated. Such is, however, simply not the case and is the reason why those who make such claims do not use verses from the Quran in support of their claims.
It is an undisputed fact that many copies of Allah's Word that were made long before the giving of the Quran are presently in existence in museums around the world. These copies of the originals are in both the original Greek and Hebrew language and in many different translations in other languages. Some of the very early Scriptures go back to 800 years before the Quran. Yet, except for minor scribal errors, they agree perfectly with each other and with our present Scriptures.
A striking confirmation of this was seen when in 1947 and following many ancient copies of Scripture were discovered in the Qumran caves around the Dead Sea in Palestine. These manuscripts belonged to the library of a Jewish community which lived in that area from 125 B.C. to A.D. 70. It was found that those copies, some dating 700 years before the Quran and all at least 500 years before it, agree totally with our present texts. Thus, it is clear that no corruption has taken place after the Quran.
The above testimony concerning the reliability of Scripture should satisfy any true believer in the Quran. Some, however, do not seem to accept even such evidence. For such people we would simply ask the following questions:
First, if it is claimed that Scripture was changed, how was it done? Copies of both the original Scriptures and translations were made very early and accompanied believers as they spread throughout Africa, Asia and Europe. Not only were copies kept in places of worship, but individual believers would often have their own personal copy. For any one man or group of men to attempt to track down and corrupt all Scriptures on three continents was clearly an impossible task. Not only would it have been impossible to track down all copies, but it would be unthinkable to imagine that all believers would have allowed their copies to be corrupted. As the Quran says:
And thou wilt find the nearest of them in affection to those who believe to be those who say: Lo, we are Christians. That is because there are among them priests and monks, and because they are not proud.
Sura 5:82
Sincere believers such as these would never have submitted their Scriptures to corruption.
Our second question is, Who would have done such a terrible thing? Some claim the Jews and the Christians together. Yet, both groups were suspicious of each other and would never have worked together. As is recorded in the Quran:
And the Jews say the Christians follow nothing, and the Christians say the Jews follow nothing true; yet both are readers of the Scripture.
Sura 2:115
And while they could not have worked together, it is equally unthinkable to suppose they could have worked independently. Had one group ever attempted such a thing, the other would immediately have exposed their evil plans.
A third question that needs to be answered is, Where is the original and uncorrupted copy of Scripture? History carries no record that such an impossible task was ever done. Thus, as evidence, those who claim Allah's Word was changed should be able to show the original Scripture and point out the changes. Yet, such has never been possible.
Perfected is the Word of thy Lord in truth and Justice. There is naught that can change His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.
Sura 6:115
There is no changing the Words of Allah.
Sura 10:64
And recite that which hath been revealed unto thee of the Scripture of Thy Lord. There is none who can change His words, and thou wilt find no refuge beside Him.
Sura 18:27
That Allah should keep His Word uncorrupted is very necessary if we consider His purpose in sending it. Allah sent His Word as a light and a direction for mankind. He would certainly never allow that light to become corrupted. To do so would be to result in the opposite of what He intended. It would lead people away from Allah and into sin and darkness. For Allah to send His Word and command people to obey it but then allow it to be corrupted and become a false guide would result in His leading astray untold millions of sincere believers.
Similarly, to abrogate or set aside His Word without clearly stating that fact and specifying the Scriptures abrogated would also be to lead astray sincere followers. Certainly if Allah had annulled His earlier Scriptures, He would have given clear instruction of that in His Word. Yet, such is totally lacking.
It is because Allah has neither allowed His Word to be corrupted nor annulled that the true believer is commanded to have faith in that Word. The Quran says:
O ye who believe, Believe in Allah and His messenger and the Scripture which He hath revealed unto His messenger, and the Scripture which He revealed aforetime. Whoso disbelieveth in Allah and His angels and His Scriptures and His messengers and the Last Day, he verily hath wandered far astray.
Sura 4:136
But say, I believe in whatever Scripture Allah hath sent down.
Sura 42:15
Lo. Ye are those who love them though they love you not, and ye believe in all the Scripture.
Sura 3:119
Yet, true faith is not just an intellectual assent. Faith also involves a commitment to follow and to obey and to refer to for direction when in doubt. Thus, we find verses such as the following:
Say: O People of the Scripture. Ye have naught (of guidance) till ye observe the Taurat and the Injil and that which was revealed unto you from the Lord.
Sura 5:68
And if thou art in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto thee, then question those who read the Scripture (that was) before thee.
Sura 10:95
Such commands would certainly not have been given had the Taurat and Injil been corrupted or abrogated. Further, the Quran is explicit in describing why the believer should refer to and obey Scriptures such as the Taurat and the Injil. It is because they contain light and direction for Allah's people. Thus:
How come they unto thee for judgment when they have the Taurat, wherein Allah hath delivered judgment? Lo, we did reveal the Taurat, wherein is guidance and a light.
Sura 5:43,44
If the Quran taught that Allah's Word had been changed or abrogated, obviously the above would never have been written. Instead, we would expect the Quran to give clear teaching on that fact and give the Scriptures that were so abrogated. Such is, however, simply not the case and is the reason why those who make such claims do not use verses from the Quran in support of their claims.
It is an undisputed fact that many copies of Allah's Word that were made long before the giving of the Quran are presently in existence in museums around the world. These copies of the originals are in both the original Greek and Hebrew language and in many different translations in other languages. Some of the very early Scriptures go back to 800 years before the Quran. Yet, except for minor scribal errors, they agree perfectly with each other and with our present Scriptures.
A striking confirmation of this was seen when in 1947 and following many ancient copies of Scripture were discovered in the Qumran caves around the Dead Sea in Palestine. These manuscripts belonged to the library of a Jewish community which lived in that area from 125 B.C. to A.D. 70. It was found that those copies, some dating 700 years before the Quran and all at least 500 years before it, agree totally with our present texts. Thus, it is clear that no corruption has taken place after the Quran.
The above testimony concerning the reliability of Scripture should satisfy any true believer in the Quran. Some, however, do not seem to accept even such evidence. For such people we would simply ask the following questions:
First, if it is claimed that Scripture was changed, how was it done? Copies of both the original Scriptures and translations were made very early and accompanied believers as they spread throughout Africa, Asia and Europe. Not only were copies kept in places of worship, but individual believers would often have their own personal copy. For any one man or group of men to attempt to track down and corrupt all Scriptures on three continents was clearly an impossible task. Not only would it have been impossible to track down all copies, but it would be unthinkable to imagine that all believers would have allowed their copies to be corrupted. As the Quran says:
And thou wilt find the nearest of them in affection to those who believe to be those who say: Lo, we are Christians. That is because there are among them priests and monks, and because they are not proud.
Sura 5:82
Sincere believers such as these would never have submitted their Scriptures to corruption.
Our second question is, Who would have done such a terrible thing? Some claim the Jews and the Christians together. Yet, both groups were suspicious of each other and would never have worked together. As is recorded in the Quran:
And the Jews say the Christians follow nothing, and the Christians say the Jews follow nothing true; yet both are readers of the Scripture.
Sura 2:115
And while they could not have worked together, it is equally unthinkable to suppose they could have worked independently. Had one group ever attempted such a thing, the other would immediately have exposed their evil plans.
A third question that needs to be answered is, Where is the original and uncorrupted copy of Scripture? History carries no record that such an impossible task was ever done. Thus, as evidence, those who claim Allah's Word was changed should be able to show the original Scripture and point out the changes. Yet, such has never been possible.
I still have yet to see anybody give me one single contradiction in the Bible. After thousands of years, surely the mass of unbelievers could come up with something other than an "eye for an eye" vs "turn the other cheek". The OT was under the law of Moses.Radar said:
God's Word was only sent to his chosen people (Israel) through the prophets. God's grace was through the blood of the sacrifice on alters sanctified for that purpose. But, when you sinned you were outside of grace, meaning outside of protection or in his wrath. God is Holy sin cannot survive in his presence. So under the guidlines of the law, a righteous man (meaning in right standing with God) , had the authority to judge sin. As in stoning and so forth. But when Jesus died on the cross he fulfilled the law of God. He was judged with all the wrath and fury of a Holy God, for the sins of the entire world; not just the jews. For everyone that lived and ever will live. So now we are under the grace of God, the payment (judgement) of our sin has already been paid. Hence, turn the other cheek.
OT, wrath of God; NT, grace of God. Same God, same law, but it is now fulfilled. So in the final judgement you will be judged according to whether or not you have accepted God's grace. If your outside of grace you will then be judged for your sin.
When all else is dust the Word will still be.
Peace
EX 20:12, DT 5:16, MT 15:4, 19:19, MK 7:10, 10:19, LK 18:20 Honor your father and your mother is one of the ten commandments. It is reinforced by Jesus.Dentonz said:
MT 10:35-37, LK 12:51-53, 14:26 Jesus says that he has come to divide families; that a man's foes will be those of his own household; that you must hate your father, mother, wife, children, brothers, sisters, and even your own life to be a disciple.
MT 23:9 Jesus says to call no man on earth your father.
EX 20:13, DT 5:17, MK 10:19, LK 18:20, RO 13:9, JA 2:11 God prohibits killing.
GE 34:1-35:5 God condones trickery and killing.
EX 32:27, DT 7:2, 13:15, 20:1-18 God orders killing.
2KI 19:35 An angel of the Lord slaughters 185,000 men.
There are 100s. None are important. It is all part of the puzzle.