Question concerning authoritive baptism

[Booko]

What constitues an emergency?

Many healthcare professionals who work in birthing areas of care have some training in this subject of baptisms, because they may be the only people able to perform a baptism if the baby is born but might not survive until a priest, or some other person might arrive.

If this is an issue for any parent-to-be, it's very smart to spell out such things in the birth plan!

(One of my best friends is a child labor coach, and devout Catholic, so she keeps me up to speed on matters like this.)

 

[Katzpur]

The Baby could never go to hell because he has no mortal sin on his or her soul.

So where would he go, if not to Hell? What other options would there be?

But yes a we beleive that a mormon baptism wouldn't be of any help. Sorry I know that sounds harsh.

Yeah, it sounds kind of harsh, but we would say the same thing about a Catholic baptism, so I guess that makes us even.

 

[athanasius]

So where would he go, if not to Hell? What other options would there be?

Yeah, it sounds kind of harsh, but we would say the same thing about a Catholic baptism, so I guess that makes us even.

There used to be a theological theory of limbo for the infant unbaptized. It was never doctrine or dogma, just a theological theory. Now adays that theory has been widely rejected and we are not abosolutley 100% positive what will happen, but we trust that God would be merciful and take him or her to heaven. Hell would never be a possibility though.

As for your second response. I am not offended and I understand. Our two churches have different views on revelation, the nature fo God, and Authority. So of coarse I would not expect the Mormon to accept the Catholic baptism as valid or vice verca.

God bless you
athanasius

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

As a baby my son was rushed to hospital while we were on holiday in wales.
The sister on the ward thought he would not make it.
so she baptised him on the spot.. she was a Methodist. That was certainly acceptable to an Anglican.

I know all churches and the Bible speak a great deal about baptism.
and as a result many churches, for doctrinal reasons, refuse to recognise each others baptisms.
I believe any baptism in Christ's name would be recognised by God.

This is an area where the bickering between us, is neither in the Christian spirit nor shows Gods infinite mercy.

I believe God will not differentiate between us, nor will he send any one to hell christened or not.

 

[Polaris]

Yes we do hope for the salvation of that inidivual and put our trust in God. God is not limited by his own sacraments. The sacrments are the "ordinary" means of grace adn so we do them for 100% assurance and obedience. We trust that God would allow and be merciful to the baby. The Baby could never go to hell because he has no mortal sin on his or her soul. But yes a we beleive that a mormon baptism wouldn't be of any help. Sorry I know that sounds harsh.

Thanks for your answers. And don't worry I'm in no way offended that you view mormon baptisms as invalid, however, to be honest I was a little surprised when I learned that you do accept certain non-Catholic baptisms.

 

[athanasius]

As a baby my son was rushed to hospital while we were on holiday in wales.
The sister on the ward thought he would not make it.
so she baptised him on the spot.. she was a Methodist. That was certainly acceptable to an Anglican.

I know all churches and the Bible speak a great deal about baptism.
and as a result many churches, for doctrinal reasons, refuse to recognise each others baptisms.
I believe any baptism in Christ's name would be recognised by God.

This is an area where the bickering between us, is neither in the Christian spirit nor shows Gods infinite mercy.

I believe God will not differentiate between us, nor will he send any one to hell christened or not.

I understand your opinion. But anyone can say they were baptised into Christ. For example I could be baptized into the name of Christ Jesus but lets say that the Jesus I was bpatized into was Jesus the Mere archangel or into a Jesus that was a mere man or just "A" God or a Jesus that was a talking doughnut. You see being baptized into the correct Jesus is essential. Thats the point that the Catholic Church makes. We are not trying to be mean we just want people to really belong to the correct Jesus and the correct Family that christ set up.

God's nature is a big big question and we cannot just throw it under the rug. This is why this is so important.

Thank you and God bless you,

In Jesus through Mary,
Athanasius

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

athanasius
I notice in a number of your posts you talk about the right God and the right Jesus.
as I understand it there is only One God and One Jesus and One Holy Spirit.

However there are numerous interpretations of what this means.
How can our interpretations and beliefs in any way affect the "True Nature of God, Jesus or the Spirit"?

How ever we twist meanings or are misled, The Truth and Love of God is Unalterable.
as is his mercy and forgiveness.

 

[athanasius]

athanasius
I notice in a number of your posts you talk about the right God and the right Jesus.
as I understand it there is only One God and One Jesus and One Holy Spirit.

However there are numerous interpretations of what this means.
How can our interpretations and beliefs in any way affect the "True Nature of God, Jesus or the Spirit"?

How ever we twist meanings or are misled, The Truth and Love of God is Unalterable.
as is his mercy and forgiveness.

We can know Gods nature and our interpretation is correct if God reveals it divinely to us through his Church. We Catholics beleive that God reveals things through his Church. We call this divine revelation. Once God has revealed it, we must obey his revelation. Thats our view. We view the Catholic Church as God's holy Oracle. It was always seen in history as being God's Church and voice. So that is our reasoning behind this. I hope that helps.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I know that when you are a student of theology you are taught to see thing in a very black and white way, and that is only right.
However in conversations with experienced prists they are rarely so dogmatic on these subjects, when talking to people from closely related churches and concede that there are numerous grey areas.

 

[athanasius]

I know that when you are a student of theology you are taught to see thing in a very black and white way, and that is only right.
However in conversations with experienced prists they are rarely so dogmatic on these subjects, when talking to people from closely related churches and concede that there are numerous grey areas.

I understand your point, as I was not always a theology student or a devout Catholic, but rather a skeptic at one time. It just so reasonable and logical and historically and biblically accurate to me to understand these things as black and white in the christian context becuase I have gone through alot of the church history and scripture and studied the issue for ten or more years.

Most people are dogmatic they just have thier own dogmas even though they may not admit to or understand it. Your partially right, God is God and his truth is his truth and our understadning of that cannot change his true reality or his true nature, even if I understand something to be different. But we Christians beleive thast God reveled his nature to us. The difference with us Catholics is that we have already gone through these questions centuries ago and have come to believe that Christ worked to reveal theses truths to his One Holy Catholic and Apostolic. To us the question is settled. "Rome has spoken the Case is closed" to paraphrase St Augustine in the 5th century.

Its kinda like Our Dogma of hell. Many people do not accept it. Jesus revealed it in the Gospels and through Miralces in history. So it doesn't matter what I personally hold. Even if I do not believe in hell, its reality is still going to exist. And since God revealed it we need to know and trust and hold to it.

Peoples problem comes with accepting the churches teaching. This is normal as it took me years of questioning and studying to find this truth until I finally was able to see it as the only logical thing for a christian, it sure seemed historical and logical. Its ok to be a skeptic. But to us with the faith this is no grey area for us now.


I holpe that helps.

Peace to you,
In Jesus through Mary,
Athanasius

 

[Katzpur]

...we trust that God would be merciful and take him or her to heaven. Hell would never be a possibility though.

Well, if Hell isn't even a possibility, it sounds to me as if LDS babies will be okay.

 

[athanasius]

Well, if Hell isn't even a possibility, it sounds to me as if LDS babies will be okay.

Quite possibly. They would not go to hell, we know this. Although we do not have a clear 100% proof of what will happen as God has not made this compelty clear as of yet in church history. So we trust God mercy and grace and for complete 100% assurance would love to get them baptized. We would also pray for thier souls and have many masses said for thier souls in case of time in purgatory.

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

athanasius
I notice in a number of your posts you talk about the right God and the right Jesus.
as I understand it there is only One God and One Jesus and One Holy Spirit.

However there are numerous interpretations of what this means.
How can our interpretations and beliefs in any way affect the "True Nature of God, Jesus or the Spirit"?

How ever we twist meanings or are misled, The Truth and Love of God is Unalterable.
as is his mercy and forgiveness.

While there is only One God, whether or not you believe in that God is another question. If you're worshipping some god which does not have the attributes of the one true God, then you are not worshipping the one true God. It would be like saying, "Well, I'm in love with FGS, but FGS with blonde hair." I have brown hair. If you're in love with a blonde version of me, sorry, you're not in love with me, but merely a caricature of me that is not real. It's a limited example but I hope you get the jist.