Question about hallucinatory substance.

[Spirit of Light]

I have learned over some time that some spiritual practices and practitioneirs use sometimes Hallucinatory substance. As a Buddhist i do not use any of this thing.

But my question is.

When you can learn to see the same things and experience beings in the same way in meditation as they can do by use of hallucinatory substance, why do you think some would still use it?

Personally i do not judge those who take the "easy path" but i still wonder why they chose it?
Can we have a discussion on it?

 

[Jumi]

My criticism is "Easy path, but to where..."

 

[Spirit of Light]

My criticism is "Easy path, but to where..."

I am sorry i used the wording Easy path. but there is a reason why.

To cultivate the mind to be open up to the realm around us do take a lot of time and effort. Then to use some substance to see this things only when intoxicated by the substance sound to be a bit easy and maybe a way that does not lead to wisdom (i can ofcourse be wrong). So as my question was, Why do some people deside to use this forms of substances?

 

[wizanda]

Personally i do not jusdge those who take the "easy path" but i still wonder why they chose it?

There is no easy path to Moksha; it is a steep mountain of quantum physics, and only those who follow its rules can ascend it.

Many get lost by taking psychedelics without religious foundations.

When you can learn to see the same things and experience beings in the same way as they can do by use of hallucinatory substance, why do you think some would still use it?

The path of meditation is like learning to balance on the ground, then going surfing whilst not even being used to the water.

The path of psychedelic meditation is like learning to balance on a pond, and then exploring the oceans.

In my opinion.

 

[Spirit of Light]

There is no easy path to Moksha; it is a steep mountain of quantum physics, and only those who follow its rules can ascend it.

Many get lost by taking psychedelics without religious foundations.

The path of meditation is like learning to balance on the ground, then going surfing whilst not even being used to the water.

The path of psychedelic meditation is like learning to balance on a pond, and then exploring the oceans.

In my opinion.

Not sure i understand you way of explaining the difference, But learning to meditate the way i learned it was more like in beginning being on the ocean where there was storm, and learning to calm the storm until it is still water

 

[SalixIncendium]

I have learned over some time that some spiritual practices and practitioneirs use sometimes Hallucinatory substance. As a Buddhist i do not use any of this thing.

But my question is.

When you can learn to see the same things and experience beings in the same way in meditation as they can do by use of hallucinatory substance, why do you think some would still use it?

Personally i do not judge those who take the "easy path" but i still wonder why they chose it?
Can we have a discussion on it?

I think you pretty much answered your own question in the OP. It's easier than learning how to meditate.

Another reason is instant gratification.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I think you pretty much answered your own question in the OP. It's easier than learning how to meditate.

Another reason is instant gratification.

Yes i do know i answer my own question But i hope it made people think

 

[wizanda]

But learning to meditate the way i learned it was more like in beginning being on the ocean where there was storm, and learning to calm the storm until it is still water

There never was a storm, our mind creates it from lack of connection to the Source, and we lose the connection we have as a child, because we don't have the right chemicals to feed the brain properly.

In my opinion.

 

[Spirit of Light]

There never was a storm, our mind creates it from lack of connection to the Source, and we lose the connection we have as a child, because we don't have the right chemicals to feed the brain properly.

In my opinion.

I dont disagree with you, but it can also be because of we tend to gain attachments to things in life, and untill we can let go of this attachments we can not fully connect with what you call sourse.

 

[wizanda]

we tend to gain attachments to things in life

Most people who take entheogens generally lose attachment to physical things, as we experience none of this is real.

In my opinion.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Most people who take entheogens generally lose attachment to physical things, as we experience none of this is real.

In my opinion.

If you do not have any attachments to physical things in the life, that is very very good, but most people who do not think of spiritual things do attach to physical objects. Personally i have no attachments to food or to physical things. but still may have other attachments i like but not in a way that i get obsessed if i do not have them

 

[shunyadragon]

I have learned over some time that some spiritual practices and practitioneirs use sometimes Hallucinatory substance. As a Buddhist i do not use any of this thing.

But my question is.

When you can learn to see the same things and experience beings in the same way in meditation as they can do by use of hallucinatory substance, why do you think some would still use it?

Personally i do not judge those who take the "easy path" but i still wonder why they chose it?
Can we have a discussion on it?

As far as I know Buddhists do not use hallucinatory substances. What are you referring to? Are you referring in incense?

Some ancient cultures and odd cults use things like mushrooms, in general not Buddhists.

 

[Spirit of Light]

As far as I know Buddhists do not use hallucinatory substances. What are you referring to? Are you referring in incense?

True we do not use any hallucinatory substnce. what i referring to is a discussion i was part of where form of narcotic drus are used to gain a form of look in to other relms. the substance that was discussed was cannabis

 

[shunyadragon]

True we do not use any hallucinatory substnce. what i referring to is a discussion i was part of where form of narcotic drus are used to gain a form of look in to other relms. the substance that was discussed was cannabis

I do not consider cannabis a hallucinatory nor narcotic substance, and not generally used by Buddhists.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I do not consider cannabis a hallucinatory substance, and not generally used by Buddhists.

No buddhists should not use drugs at all.
The discussion is why do some spiritual people use hallusinatory drugs, not only cannabis, when it is fully possible to gain same experience in meditation and there is no possability to be addicted in meditation but drugs is addicting

 

[Polymath257]

Most entheogens are also non-addictive.

So, the question in my mind is whether their use gets to the same place as meditation, or at least somewhere on the journey. If so, and it is easier, what is the harm of using them? Does it slow progress later?

Isn't meditation also attempting to induce a state that is quite different than 'normal'?

 

[Mindmaster]

I have learned over some time that some spiritual practices and practitioneirs use sometimes Hallucinatory substance. As a Buddhist i do not use any of this thing.

But my question is.

When you can learn to see the same things and experience beings in the same way in meditation as they can do by use of hallucinatory substance, why do you think some would still use it?

Personally i do not judge those who take the "easy path" but i still wonder why they chose it?
Can we have a discussion on it?

Easy path or not, it works. But, don't see much value to hallucinogens, though certainly see the value of weed. (For most people, slight amounts of weed will actually aid in concentration/focus.)

Historically, all cultures have used drugs as a part of their spiritual experience. Albeit, that comes in vastly different forms but it's true nonetheless. However, the purpose generally wasn't to get ripped on them, it was to chill the person out enough to have the experience.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Most entheogens are also non-addictive.

So, the question in my mind is whether their use gets to the same place as meditation, or at least somewhere on the journey. If so, and it is easier, what is the harm of using them? Does it slow progress later?

Isn't meditation also attempting to induce a state that is quite different than 'normal'?

Meditation in a deeper form is going out of the physial world and seeing only the non physical world. The usage of halluinative drugs is not always showing the real non physical world (i have been told) And for a meditator it is very important to be free from any substance that can alter the truth.

 

[Mindmaster]

Most entheogens are also non-addictive.

So, the question in my mind is whether their use gets to the same place as meditation, or at least somewhere on the journey. If so, and it is easier, what is the harm of using them? Does it slow progress later?

Isn't meditation also attempting to induce a state that is quite different than 'normal'?

There is no difference between say a weed induced meditative trance state and a normal one, though most westerners would find the weed mechanism easier. Certainly, there becomes a point where that isn't needed, even by the person who used that initially...

There are also many other entheogens used in most of the practitioners I personally know that aren't typically things outsiders know about. None of them being illegal of course, however, they come with hazards and some are fatal if not handled properly.

 

[Polymath257]

Meditation in a deeper form is going out of the physial world and seeing only the non physical world. The usage of halluinative drugs is not always showing the real non physical world (i have been told) And for a meditator it is very important to be free from any substance that can alter the truth.

But doesn't *all* perception alter the truth to some extent?