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Putin bans top EU officials in retaliation for sanctions

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Do you admire democracy? It seems strange to admire Putin and democracy since Putin seems to be opposed to democracy.
Yes, I do.
That is why I do think this autocracy that Putin and his party established is detrimental.
I was speaking of him as a person.
But I don't agree with the political system,surely.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
The love he has for his own country.
But he does not understand that only through a democratic and progressive change, he can achieve respect, besides consensus.

I'm not sure I agree, but that's an interesting perspective.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Russia bans top EU officials in retaliation for sanctions


Well...as you guys know, I admire Putin.
I think Russia can be a great ally of the EU since Russia is Europe. Historically, linguistically, culturally and geographically.
I am very saddened by these tensions.
What do you guys think?
Putin is one of the most interesting political leaders in the world today. I really admire the Russians as a people and Putin himself in particular, but I have to agree with others in terms of freedoms and his choice of allies that makes me question Putin's motives here.

I personally still think he just wants reunification and the prestige that the old USSR had in its heyday as a major player on the world stage.

It seems a waste of such a charismatic, active, and interesting leader to go in such a direction, yet I suspect it's an incredible draw for people in power and those who were and still proud of the former USSR.

The last parade in Red Square you can still see that old nationalistic passion burning. It's humbling in its own way in face of a changing and unpredictable world.

I just wish that same passion is present here in the free country, but it's a flame that is slowly going out itself.

It's probably why Putin has such attraction and appeal, even as a country that is regarded as an adversary and enemy. He knows how to inspire and motivate people.
 

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
I’m not sure that Russia is Europe, or ever has been. Have you looked at a map? Have you considered her history? Russia straddles two continents, geographically and culturally. They still had serfdom until well into the 19th Century, and were ruled by an all powerful emperor, until that tyranny was replaced with another; and now another again.

Russia has every reason to consider Europe as a threat. Both Napoleon and Hitler reached the gates of Moscow, in consecutive centuries. Understanding this is key to understanding the psychology of Russian leaders.

Putin is corrupt, ruthless, completely intolerant of dissent; he also has a large popular following, or he did until quite recently.

And yes, he’s a patriot, who loves his country. He loves it so much he wants to extend it’s borders back to the limits of the Russian Empire. Which until recently included Ukraine and the Baltic States, and has at other times included Poland.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Russia bans top EU officials in retaliation for sanctions


Well...as you guys know, I admire Putin.
I think Russia can be a great ally of the EU since Russia is Europe. Historically, linguistically, culturally and geographically.
I am very saddened by these tensions.
What do you guys think?
I think Putin is a murderous gangster, intent on damaging western democracy by any means he can, out of spite for its success compared to his own miserable achievements.

If he wants a new cold war he can have one. The last one ended in total failure of Russia and another one will do the same. The country is on skid row.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
I think Putin is a murderous gangster, intent on damaging western democracy by any means he can, out of spite for its success compared to his own miserable achievements.

If he wants a new cold war he can have one. The last one ended in total failure of Russia and another one will do the same. The country is on skid row.

I still hope for a EU-Russia alliance :)
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Russia bans top EU officials in retaliation for sanctions


Well...as you guys know, I admire Putin.
I think Russia can be a great ally of the EU since Russia is Europe. Historically, linguistically, culturally and geographically.
I am very saddened by these tensions.
What do you guys think?

I think it's a crying shame that the West did not take a more gracious and magnanimous approach after the fall of the Berlin Wall and the dissolution of the Soviet Union. Much of what we're seeing now could have been avoided if Western policymakers had not been so reckless and foolish. (Although what can one expect from greedy, myopic capitalists hellbent on gaining wealth no matter what the consequences might be?)

Historically, Russia has always been somewhat separate from the West, due in part between the schism between the Eastern and Western churches. They've been invaded and overrun numerous times in their history, so if they're wary of the West, they have good reason to be.

As for Putin, my opinion is that, as long as the people believe that he is standing up and defending Russia from Western hostility and aggression, then they will continue to support him. The more we push, squeeze, and rattle our sabers, the more entrenched they will become. History has shown that they're not the kind of people to give in that easily, particularly if they feel cornered or their back is to the wall.

We should also be mindful of what appear to be closer ties between Russia and China. Putin has recently said that he has not ruled out the possibility of a Russian-Chinese alliance, which would be most disagreeable to the West. It could further destabilize the world and lead to greater problems.

I don't think it means that the U.S. or Europe are in any immediate danger, but we might have to tone down some of our geopolitical hubris and our self-appointed role as "Captain America" out to right all the wrongs of the world. Even many Americans can see how transparently hypocritical we've been in the conduct of our foreign and military affairs, so who's kidding whom here? Our adversaries paint us as hypocrites, and they're absolutely right. We are a culture which embraces hypocrisy and revels in it. But it's okay, because it "feels good" to us, and that's all that really matters.

If we choose to go down this path and make them into an enemy, then we're going to have to be careful and vigilant. It's possible that our government may end up passing even more stringent rules and regulations regarding internal national security - things that would make the Patriot Act look like a picnic.

But who knows? Maybe this will lead to a great boom for the bomb shelter industry.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
I think it's a crying shame that the West did not take a more gracious and magnanimous approach after the fall of the Berlin Wall and the dissolution of the Soviet Union. Much of what we're seeing now could have been avoided if Western policymakers had not been so reckless and foolish. (Although what can one expect from greedy, myopic capitalists hellbent on gaining wealth no matter what the consequences might be?)

Historically, Russia has always been somewhat separate from the West, due in part between the schism between the Eastern and Western churches. They've been invaded and overrun numerous times in their history, so if they're wary of the West, they have good reason to be.

As for Putin, my opinion is that, as long as the people believe that he is standing up and defending Russia from Western hostility and aggression, then they will continue to support him. The more we push, squeeze, and rattle our sabers, the more entrenched they will become. History has shown that they're not the kind of people to give in that easily, particularly if they feel cornered or their back is to the wall.

We should also be mindful of what appear to be closer ties between Russia and China. Putin has recently said that he has not ruled out the possibility of a Russian-Chinese alliance, which would be most disagreeable to the West. It could further destabilize the world and lead to greater problems.

I don't think it means that the U.S. or Europe are in any immediate danger, but we might have to tone down some of our geopolitical hubris and our self-appointed role as "Captain America" out to right all the wrongs of the world. Even many Americans can see how transparently hypocritical we've been in the conduct of our foreign and military affairs, so who's kidding whom here? Our adversaries paint us as hypocrites, and they're absolutely right. We are a culture which embraces hypocrisy and revels in it. But it's okay, because it "feels good" to us, and that's all that really matters.

If we choose to go down this path and make them into an enemy, then we're going to have to be careful and vigilant. It's possible that our government may end up passing even more stringent rules and regulations regarding internal national security - things that would make the Patriot Act look like a picnic.

But who knows? Maybe this will lead to a great boom for the bomb shelter industry.


I absolutely agree. When the USSR collapsed it was already totally inoffensive since a decade.
The West should have used this opportunity to build strong ties with the new Russian Federation.
In the EU we are noticing that the entire Slavic world is really divided because the so called Visegrad countries like Poland still see Russia as a threat, having been traumatized by the Soviet regime and the Pact of Warsaw.
Since the entire Eastern Europe entered the EU they have been restlessly demonizing Russia.
Hungary, Catholic Slavs...etc...


I do believe Russia needs the West. Desperately. Because as Putin said many times, Russia is Europe. Not only culturally but also economically. Russia intends to create the same capitalistic wealth as in the European Union. And in order to do so, it needs to look towards the West (and not towards the Far East).
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
Russia bans top EU officials in retaliation for sanctions


Well...as you guys know, I admire Putin.
I think Russia can be a great ally of the EU since Russia is Europe. Historically, linguistically, culturally and geographically.
I am very saddened by these tensions.
What do you guys think?
Putin thrives on conflict, flexing his muscles. He has no interest on compromise and working with the EU, it is politically seen as 'weak' to do so in Russia.
He is a horrible man.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I absolutely agree. When the USSR collapsed it was already totally inoffensive since a decade.
The West should have used this opportunity to build strong ties with the new Russian Federation.
In the EU we are noticing that the entire Slavic world is really divided because the so called Visegrad countries like Poland still see Russia as a threat, having been traumatized by the Soviet regime and the Pact of Warsaw.
Since the entire Eastern Europe entered the EU they have been restlessly demonizing Russia.
Hungary, Catholic Slavs...etc...


I do believe Russia needs the West. Desperately. Because as Putin said many times, Russia is Europe. Not only culturally but also economically. Russia intends to create the same capitalistic wealth as in the European Union. And in order to do so, it needs to look towards the West (and not towards the Far East).

I agree that Russia is Europe, at least the portion of Russia west of the Ural Mountains, the traditional dividing line between Europe and Asia. Russian history is rather complicated, as are the relationships they've had between the East and the West. Europe, too, has had a complicated history.

No doubt there are countries in Eastern Europe with a righteous grudge against Russia. In fact, one thing I've noticed about Europeans is that they do tend to hold grudges - even if they might be more passive or dormant in modern times. Even if their governments are now considered allies and fully democratic and free. I can still sense a bit of resentment that lingers on and on. Maybe I'm wrong about that, or maybe it's overstated and I'm getting the wrong impression from my side of the pond.

Historically, I can appreciate that there has been a lot of bad blood between the various nations of Europe over the centuries. The U.S. has only been involved for the past hundred years or so, but European history goes back much further, long before America came on the scene.

Of course, America is definitely not Europe, but historically and politically, we might be considered some kind of outgrowth or expansion of Europe. George Carlin once referred to America as "Europe Junior," which is a rather fitting description.

But all in all, we need to take a more practical look at the world situation, taking into consideration the larger picture, rather than selected little pictures that our leaders are obsessed with. We need to come to terms with our own past history, and we need to deal with the other countries on a rational and global level, eschewing old grudges and perceptions of "bad blood."

For example, a lot of people are worried about North Korea and the possible threat they could pose. By building closer ties with Russia and China, they might be able to gain positive control over North Korea, and reduce the threat. Maybe even a chance of North and South Korea reuniting, if we work together. Likewise, many are worried about Iran and the threat they might pose, but we might be able to work together with Russia to contain that threat. Same for the terrorism and chaos in the Middle East and Africa.

We can use our combined strength to bring about peace and order in the world. As long as we deal with each other fairly and honorably, then there's no reason we can't have a safe, orderly, prosperous, and peaceful world. To be sure, it would be far from perfect, as we'll never have a perfect world. But we can make it better than it is now.
 
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