Pretribulation rapture

[Sand Dancer]

Frankly, if someone just vacuumed up all the most conservative Evangelicals and moved them to another dimension, that would be great.

The rest of us could finally get to work actually fixing the problems we face, without a vocal minority blocking everything due to their eager anticipation of the world ending, who apparently couldn't care less about "worldly matters" and only seem interested in the wellbeing of humans before we're born and after we die. Climate change, human rights, free and open scientific inquiry, and human wellbeing and flourishing would finally be issues we could directly pursue without the ball-and-chain. If that's "hell on earth" then I'll take it.

I am picturing a heavenly Hoover right now.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

l believe NT scripture reveals that the Church age was kept a mystery to Hebrew prophets [see Ephesians 3:3-11]. It's particularly important to dwell upon the idea that Jew and Gentile 'should be fellowheirs' in Christ. This was not the prophetic word given to Israel under the law.

If one can acknowledge the truth of this 'mystery' then one can look again at the prophecy of the Hebrew scriptures realising that the Church age is hidden from view. In other words, the Hebrew prophets only revealed what would happen to Israel under the law. This is why Daniel makes a prophecy of the seventy weeks, where 69 heptads are distinguished from the final 'week'. Without knowing the time period of the Church age one cannot accurately predict the beginning of this final seven years. The nearest we can get is to use the 'day as a thousand years' and assume the Church age will last two thousand years.

Well there is another faith based in the Holy Land that indicates that Christianity lasted 1844 years and Islam 1260 years.

From BC 457 the 2300 year prophecy predicts 1844 and the 69 and 70 weeks prophecies tell of the event of Jesus the Christ.

They also show the Faith of Muhammad is predicted in the Bible.

So the quandary continues. IMHO.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Which ones still need to be fulfilled? I know there are a bunch, but do you have a list?

I see Biblical Prophecy was given in a timeless unfolding. Events that can be seen as quite specific, especially for the end of ages Messiah, and events that unfold throughout the history of the rise and fall of civilizations.

The prophecies of the 1/3 of humanuty perishing are still valid, as Baha'u'llah has also said a time is approaching when humanity will face such a calamity, when the limbs of mankind will shake. Baha'u'llah also offers that the Faith will not be embraced by the majority until that time unfolds.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

Which ones still need to be fulfilled? I know there are a bunch, but do you have a list?

No, I do not have a list, but whatever prophecies have not been fulfilled yet will be fulfilled during the present age.
Baha'is believe that we are living in a new age and it is called the Messianic Age because the Messiah has come.

In the Baháʼí Faith, the "Messianic Age" refers to a 1000-year period beginning with the Declaration of Baháʼu'lláh in 1863. Baháʼís believe the period of peace and prosperity is gradually unfolding and will culminate in the appearance of "The Most Great Peace".

Messianic Age - Wikipedia

Baha'is believe that all of the New Testament prophecies for the return of Christ have been fulfilled by Baha'u'llah since we believe that Baha'u'llah was the return of Christ..

Not all of the Old Testament prophecies have been fulfilled yet. The prophecies that refer to the coming of the messiah have all been fulfilled but the prophecies that are about what will happen during the messianic age have not all been fulfilled. However, some of the OT prophecies have been partially fulfilled or are in the process of fulfillment. For example:

Isaiah 9:6-7 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

Baha'is believe that Baha’u’llah was the Prince of Peace because world peace will be established during His religious dispensation. Please note that the prophecy does not say when peace will be established, but where it says there shall be no end to the peace that indicates that it won't happen all at once but rather it will unfold gradually. The same is true for the government. It says that there shall be no end to the government which means it will begin and be established gradually and continue to develop over time. The government will be more developed in the future as the prophecy says (increase in government).

Baha’u’llah set up a system of government and it has already been established among the Baha’is. The institutions of that government are fully operational, but still in their infancy. What we now refer to as Local Spiritual assemblies (LSAs) and will eventually evolve into what will be called Houses of Justice.

 

[Sand Dancer]

It's basically a smaller piece of the Second American Revival that planted the seeds of contemporary Evangelism. The idea the Bible is the only book one really needs in life and a non-critical "plain reading" of it also come from then.

Yep. It's a very new idea.

 

[Sand Dancer]

I see Biblical Prophecy was given in a timeless unfolding. Events that can be seen as quite specific, especially for the end of ages Messiah, and events that unfold throughout the history of the rise and fall of civilizations.

The prophecies of the 1/3 of humanuty perishing are still valid, as Baha'u'llah has also said a time is approaching when humanity will face such a calamity, when the limbs of mankind will shake. Baha'u'llah also offers that the Faith will not be embraced by the majority until that time unfolds.

Regards Tony

Thanks! I have the book Gleanings From the Writings of Bah'u'allah, but haven't read it. What do you think of it?

 

[Sand Dancer]

I guess the idea of end days comes from the Bible but I don't know what verses it is found in. I think it has the same meaning as end times or latter days or last days.

As I always say, anyone can make the Bible say whatever they want it to mean by picking certain verses and interpreting them to suit their views, and that is why Christians believe all kinds of different things about what will happen.

There's a verse in one of the Corinthians (I think) and a few in Revelation and that's where the whole idea of it comes from. I don't understand taking a few verses from different books regarding different things from different time periods and stringing them together to make a theology.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Thanks! I have the book Gleanings From the Writings of Bah'u'allah, but haven't read it. What do you think of it?

It is a good selection covering a range of topics. It was compliled by Shoghi Effendi who translated the writings in to KJV style of English, as Shoghi Effendi saw that was the best English to show the beauty of Arabic and Persian.

I hope you enjoy the passages when you get a chance to read them.

All the best Regards Tony

 

[Sand Dancer]

It is a good selection covering a range of topics. It was compliled by Shoghi Effendi who translated the writings in to KJV style of English, as Shoghi Effendi saw that was the best English to show the beauty of Arabic and Persian.

I hope you enjoy the passages when you get a chance to read them.

All the best Regards Tony

Thank you. I pulled it out to go on the top of my to-read list.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There's a verse in one of the Corinthians (I think) and a few in Revelation and that's where the whole idea of it comes from. I don't understand taking a few verses from different books regarding different things from different time periods and stringing them together to make a theology.

That is a good observation, but we can consider that is how the Bible was compiled.

The Bible was not compiled in chronological events as they happened, it was compiled from peoples memories of the events starting 60 to 70 years later.

As such, it is only logical that it is fragmented in its timelines.

Also Baha'u'llah offered that in each word there is hundreds of meanings and in each verse and passage, universes of meanings. As such it is all given us to bring us all to the One Source of that knowledge.

All the division of understanding only belongs to our human reality and our choices.

Regards Tony

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yep. It's a very new idea.

Much of American Evangelism is. Like a literal interpretation of the Bible, a plain reading of it, and believing nothing else is needed but the Bible.

 

[Trailblazer]

Thank you. I pulled it out to go on the top of my to-read list.

Below is a little overview of the book Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh. The book is called Gleanings because it is an extraction of information from various Tablets... The following is from the Introduction of Gleanings which is not in the online version of the book that is in the Baha'i Reference Library, it is only in the printed book.

“Gleanings is excerpts from various Tablets. In the introduction to Gleanings it explains how it is organized into five parts. Part one, pages 1-46, proclaims this as the “Day of God.” Part two, pages 46-136, concerns the Manifestation of God and His significance. Part three, pages 136-200, deals with basic questions concerning the soul and its immortality. Part four, pages 200-259, concerns the spiritual aspects of the World Order and the Most Great Peace. Part five, pages 259-346, deals with the duties of the individual and the spiritual meaning of life.” Gleanings

“Gleanings is a book for meditative study. It is not a book of history and facts, but of love and spiritual power. No one can understand the faith of the thousands of martyred followers of the Bab, unless he catches the spirit of this book. No one can appreciate why thousands of Baha’is give up the comfort of settled homes and move into strange countries to tell the people about Baha’u’llah, unless he clearly glimpses the spirit of this book.” Gleanings