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Preterism

Brian Schuh

Well-Known Member
Full preterism is considered a heresy. But partial preterism has become mainstream in the Roman Catholic Church and Orthodoxy.

Preterism is the belief that all Bible prophecy is fullfilled, that the law of Moses is fulfilled, and furthermore, that Israel and Jerusalem has been replaced with Christianity and the Vatican.

Check out revelationrevolution.org. A website that claims the second coming has already happened, less than 30 years after Jesus died, (This generation shall not pass away, until all these things come to pass, --Jesus.) And that the resurrection at the end of Daniel 12 happened also at that time.

I like preterism to some degree. I still believe the Jews are the chosen. That is where I have to part ways with it. There are still prophecies I believe haven't happened. But preterism makes so much sense to me, that I, as a Jewish person, have almost come to believe in Jesus.

Any respectful comments are welcome on this thread.
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
So then who is the "Man Of Lawlessness" Negan?


2 Thessalonians 2:3
not to be easily disconcerted or alarmed by any spirit or message or letter presuming to be from us and alleging that the day of the Lord has already come. Let no one deceive you in anyway, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness (the son of destruction) is revealed. He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.…
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
Full preterism is considered a heresy. But partial preterism has become mainstream in the Roman Catholic Church and Orthodoxy.

Preterism is the belief that all Bible prophecy is fullfilled, that the law of Moses is fulfilled, and furthermore, that Israel and Jerusalem has been replaced with Christianity and the Vatican.

Check out revelationrevolution.org. A website that claims the second coming has already happened, less than 30 years after Jesus died, (This generation shall not pass away, until all these things come to pass, --Jesus.) And that the resurrection at the end of Daniel 12 happened also at that time.

I like preterism to some degree. I still believe the Jews are the chosen. That is where I have to part ways with it. There are still prophecies I believe haven't happened. But preterism makes so much sense to me, that I, as a Jewish person, have almost come to believe in Jesus.

Any respectful comments are welcome on this thread.
I find it difficult to believe that anyone who is not already Christian would be swayed by such an argument. Its no wonder to me that a Christian would already be inclined to believe that passages and prophecies that his Bible has altered to match their claims would have been fulfilled. Never mind the completely new concepts they introduce to the Tanach.
As well the NT was written using the Tanach as its basis. All they needed to do was read the prophecies and then fabricate stories to fit their interpretation of them.

For someone who does not use the Christian Bible, such a a possibility is so foreign as to be ludicrous.
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
I took the trouble to track down one of the claims on the site which said that at the adoption of Nero by Claudius Caesar there was fire in the sky. The site only said that they got this from a historian Cassius Dio. They really could have done better, really could. Well I found him translated into English on Project Gutenberg.

His books are partially preserved and compiled. They are divided into 6 files on Project Gutenberg, so to resolve the above reference you must open volume 5 and then navigate down to two places. In Volume 5 at the place marked book 61 is a description of a glow that appeared around Nero at his birth -- not what the site said, however in the same volume in book 66 subsections 19-23 there is a description of an enormous eruption of Vesuvius for some reason unspecified associated with Neros succession, which was so bright that it caused night and day to be the same. This cannot be called a fulfillment of anything. Plus it includes mysterious stone giants, and these aren't mentioned in Revelation at all.

Anyway the 'Fire in the sky' in Revelation seems to be a figurative description of judgment against rulers rather than something you can fulfill with mere fire. I mean, what does it matter if there's some fire up there? Its just fire.
 

GodsVoice

Active Member
I took the trouble to track down one of the claims on the site which said that at the adoption of Nero by Claudius Caesar there was fire in the sky. The site only said that they got this from a historian Cassius Dio. They really could have done better, really could. Well I found him translated into English on Project Gutenberg.

His books are partially preserved and compiled. They are divided into 6 files on Project Gutenberg, so to resolve the above reference you must open volume 5 and then navigate down to two places. In Volume 5 at the place marked book 61 is a description of a glow that appeared around Nero at his birth -- not what the site said, however in the same volume in book 66 subsections 19-23 there is a description of an enormous eruption of Vesuvius for some reason unspecified associated with Neros succession, which was so bright that it caused night and day to be the same. This cannot be called a fulfillment of anything. Plus it includes mysterious stone giants, and these aren't mentioned in Revelation at all.

Anyway the 'Fire in the sky' in Revelation seems to be a figurative description of judgment against rulers rather than something you can fulfill with mere fire. I mean, what does it matter if there's some fire up there? Its just fire.

You wasted your time. All you need to do is ask God and His voice ( the Gospel I preach for God ) will give you an answer to what kind of Fire it written about in Revelation. The "sulfur" smell is the give-a-way word that describes this source of fire.

Revelation 19
20: And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had worked the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.

Psalms 18
7: Then the earth reeled and rocked; the foundations also of the mountains trembled and quaked, because he was angry.
8: Smoke went up from his nostrils, and devouring fire from his mouth; glowing coals flamed forth from him.
9: He bowed the heavens, and came down; thick darkness was under his feet.
10: He rode on a cherub, and flew; he came swiftly upon the wings of the wind.
11: He made darkness his covering around him, his canopy thick clouds dark with water.
12: Out of the brightness before him there broke through his clouds hailstones and coals of fire.
13: The LORD also thundered in the heavens, and the Most High uttered his voice, hailstones and coals of fire.
14: And he sent out his arrows, and scattered them; he flashed forth lightnings, and routed them.
15: Then the channels of the sea were seen, and the foundations of the world were laid bare, at thy rebuke, O LORD, at the blast of the breath of thy nostrils.

Joel 2
1: Blow the trumpet in Zion; sound the alarm on my holy mountain! Let all the inhabitants of the land tremble, for the day of the LORD is coming, it is near,
2: a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and thick darkness! Like blackness there is spread upon the mountains a great and powerful people; their like has never been from of old, nor will be again after them through the years of all generations.
3: Fire devours before them, and behind them a flame burns. The land is like the garden of Eden before them, but after them a desolate wilderness, and nothing escapes them.
4: Their appearance is like the appearance of horses, and like war horses they run.
5: As with the rumbling of chariots, they leap on the tops of the mountains, like the crackling of a flame of fire devouring the stubble, like a powerful army drawn up for battle.
6: Before them peoples are in anguish, all faces grow pale.
7: Like warriors they charge, like soldiers they scale the wall. They march each on his way, they do not swerve from their paths.
8: They do not jostle one another, each marches in his path; they burst through the weapons and are not halted.
9: They leap upon the city, they run upon the walls; they climb up into the houses, they enter through the windows like a thief.
10: The earth quakes before them, the heavens tremble. The sun and the moon are darkened, and the stars withdraw their shining.

Revelation 21
8: But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
You wasted your time. All you need to do is ask God and His voice ( the Gospel I preach for God ) will give you an answer to what kind of Fire it written about in Revelation. The "sulfur" smell is the give-a-way word that describes this source of fire.

Revelation 19
20: And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had worked the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.

Psalms 18
7: Then the earth reeled and rocked; the foundations also of the mountains trembled and quaked, because he was angry.
8: Smoke went up from his nostrils, and devouring fire from his mouth; glowing coals flamed forth from him.
9: He bowed the heavens, and came down; thick darkness was under his feet.
10: He rode on a cherub, and flew; he came swiftly upon the wings of the wind.
11: He made darkness his covering around him, his canopy thick clouds dark with water.
12: Out of the brightness before him there broke through his clouds hailstones and coals of fire.
13: The LORD also thundered in the heavens, and the Most High uttered his voice, hailstones and coals of fire.
14: And he sent out his arrows, and scattered them; he flashed forth lightnings, and routed them.
15: Then the channels of the sea were seen, and the foundations of the world were laid bare, at thy rebuke, O LORD, at the blast of the breath of thy nostrils.

Joel 2
1: Blow the trumpet in Zion; sound the alarm on my holy mountain! Let all the inhabitants of the land tremble, for the day of the LORD is coming, it is near,
2: a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and thick darkness! Like blackness there is spread upon the mountains a great and powerful people; their like has never been from of old, nor will be again after them through the years of all generations.
3: Fire devours before them, and behind them a flame burns. The land is like the garden of Eden before them, but after them a desolate wilderness, and nothing escapes them.
4: Their appearance is like the appearance of horses, and like war horses they run.
5: As with the rumbling of chariots, they leap on the tops of the mountains, like the crackling of a flame of fire devouring the stubble, like a powerful army drawn up for battle.
6: Before them peoples are in anguish, all faces grow pale.
7: Like warriors they charge, like soldiers they scale the wall. They march each on his way, they do not swerve from their paths.
8: They do not jostle one another, each marches in his path; they burst through the weapons and are not halted.
9: They leap upon the city, they run upon the walls; they climb up into the houses, they enter through the windows like a thief.
10: The earth quakes before them, the heavens tremble. The sun and the moon are darkened, and the stars withdraw their shining.

Revelation 21
8: But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."
I think everybody has a little bit to contribute. Revelation is a constant reminder to endure and keep going, working towards a goal. The goal is a kingdom made without hands, in other words its a kingdom made inside of people instead of outside of them.
 

GodsVoice

Active Member
I think everybody has a little bit to contribute. Revelation is a constant reminder to endure and keep going, working towards a goal. The goal is a kingdom made without hands, in other words its a kingdom made inside of people instead of outside of them.

It's an invisible kingdom that forms visible images that appear real.
 

Brian Schuh

Well-Known Member
A historicist interpretation of Daniel has been interpreted to clearly point to the papacy as the lawless man of sin (or the beast.) A Roman Catholic scholar created the preterist interpretation as a reaction to Protestants' historicist interpretation.

It only makes sense that in much apocalyptic pseudepigrapha that this literature is not attempting to predict the distant future but rather to offer hope to believers who are undergoing a current crisis, such as persecution.

An example would be, that the Book of Daniel was written during the persecution under Antiochus Epiphanes (sp?) In that light, the Book of Daniel would be fulfilled. Same with Revelation, that it was written at the time of persecution under Nero, and then would be fulfilled at that time.

Nero put his image on all the Roman coins with the title God written on these coins. The Torah says a Jew is not to carry an image of a false god. So no Jew could buy or sell without his religion being compromised. This is what the mark of the beast was originally.
 

GodsVoice

Active Member
A historicist interpretation of Daniel has been interpreted to clearly point to the papacy as the lawless man of sin (or the beast.) A Roman Catholic scholar created the preterist interpretation as a reaction to Protestants' historicist interpretation.

It only makes sense that in much apocalyptic pseudepigrapha that this literature is not attempting to predict the distant future but rather to offer hope to believers who are undergoing a current crisis, such as persecution.

An example would be, that the Book of Daniel was written during the persecution under Antiochus Epiphanes (sp?) In that light, the Book of Daniel would be fulfilled. Same with Revelation, that it was written at the time of persecution under Nero, and then would be fulfilled at that time.

Nero put his image on all the Roman coins with the title God written on these coins. The Torah says a Jew is not to carry an image of a false god. So no Jew could buy or sell without his religion being compromised. This is what the mark of the beast was originally.

You have no idea why the books of Daniel and Revelation were written and why it's very important to understand the Beast that has been influencing man to build false gods with his human hands starting from the observations of the night sky which was the first geometry class that God used to teach geometric shapes.
 

Angela3

New Member
Preterists in sheep's clothing: the growing plague of end times deception. What would you say about this guys?
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Some of the Messianic prophecy has been fulfilled, the end times so forth part, hasn't. To say that none of the messianism has been fulfilled, is not Jesus adherence.
 
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