Predestination

[Katzpur]

Why does everyone seem to think that I'm saying, "God makes us do this. God makes us do that."? That's not what I mean. I simply mean that he creates people with full knowledge of what their choices are and if they will go to hell or not. And I personally think he's kind of an a** (not trying to offend anyone, just stating an opinion) for creating people knowing those things.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. Even so, you won't find the word "omniscient" anywhere in the Bible. Sure, God is all-knowing, but we have interpreted that word to mean something that the Bible never actually says. I think God knows each of us perfectly, but that He has chosen to give us free will to choose for ourselves. I don't think He knows in advance each and every move we're going to make. He knows what's in our hearts and the kind of people we are. Hence, He knows what He can expect of us in any given circumstances. But it's still up to us. Plus, I personally believe that almost all of us will ultimately end up in Heaven and that the only ones who don't are those who would actually prefer it that way.

 

[zombieharlot]

Yes, sorry. I caught myself with another post.

I don't believe in hell as a place souls go to after death. I think we all achieve reunion with God after death. But, in this life we make choices that affect how we see ourselves, each other and the world. A relationship with God, and the character of our relationship with God, IMO shapes these choices in a way that brings us into the Kingdom of God in this life, and as we are transformed we also help transform the world, bringing it closer to the KOG as well.

lunamoth

If we're all going to be with God after death, then what's the point of this life in the first place? And why not just kill ourselves then? After all, we'd just go on to be with God anyway, right?

 

[zombieharlot]

Actually, you do have a relationship with God as it seems you are mad at him for what you view as grave injustice. I'd say that's a good start.

Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.

No offense intended. It's just that I greatly appreciate where you are coming from.

peace,
lunamoth

Yes, I do bare a lot against him.

 

[zombieharlot]

Sorry for the misunderstanding. Even so, you won't find the word "omniscient" anywhere in the Bible. Sure, God is all-knowing, but we have interpreted that word to mean something that the Bible never actually says. I think God knows each of us perfectly, but that He has chosen to give us free will to choose for ourselves. I don't think He knows in advance each and every move we're going to make. He knows what's in our hearts and the kind of people we are. Hence, He knows what He can expect of us in any given circumstances. But it's still up to us. Plus, I personally believe that almost all of us will ultimately end up in Heaven and that the only ones who don't are those who would actually prefer it that way.

Honestly, I don't understand the logic behind everyone going to heaven.

 

[standing_alone]

Honestly, I don't understand the logic behind everyone going to heaven.

Shhhh! Don't question it! We're getting a free ride!

 

[CrystalSnow]

If we're all going to be with God after death, then what's the point of this life in the first place? And why not just kill ourselves then? After all, we'd just go on to be with God anyway, right?

Not everyone is going to heaven. If you don't have a relationship with God, then that was your choice. And every choice consequence, whether it be good or bad. The consequence for trusting in God, letting Him lead you in life, and believing that Jesus Christ came to the Earth and literally died for your sins, means that you're going to heaven. Anyother choice sends you straight to hell.

 

[Katzpur]

Honestly, I don't understand the logic behind everyone going to heaven.

Well, I didn't say "everyone." I said "almost everyone."

Besides, I believe there are different degrees of heavenly glory. One is like the stars, one like the moon and another like the sun. (I'm too lazy to find the scripture right now, but I can if you want.) I don't believe that everyone who goes to Heaven will be given the same reward. The most obedient and faithful of God's children will be given a greater reward than the others. Those in the lowest of the heavenly kingdoms will have an eternal existence which which is far superior to what we have here on earth, but nowhere near as wonderful as those who receive exaltation and live forever in the presence of God himself. But that's strictly the LDS perspective on the subject. Other Christians will no doubt disagree.

 

[standing_alone]

Well, I didn't say "everyone." I said "almost everyone."

So we're not getting a free ride?

 

[Katzpur]

Not everyone is going to heaven. If you don't have a relationship with God, then that was your choice. And every choice consequence, whether it be good or bad. The consequence for trusting in God, letting Him lead you in life, and believing that Jesus Christ came to the Earth and literally died for your sins, means that you're going to heaven. Anyother choice sends you straight to hell.

What about people who lived their entire lives without ever having heard of Jesus Christ? What about someone who lived before He did or even after He did, but in a part of the world where His gospel was virtually unknown. If the choice you speak of was not available to them, what do you believe their fate will be?

 

[CrystalSnow]

I believe there are different degrees of heavenly glory. One is like the stars, one like the moon and another like the sun.

Other Christians will no doubt disagree

And that would be me. I believe that there is only one type of heavenly glory and only one way to get there (the knowlegde of Jesus Christ).

 

[Katzpur]

So we're not getting a free ride?

You're getting a free ride in terms of being resurrected. A friend of mine wrote a poem for her kids which explains it like this: "I can board the train for free. How far I go is up to me."

 

[zombieharlot]

Shhhh! Don't question it! We're getting a free ride!

I just want to make sure that we truly are getting a free ride before I take full advantage of it. Mwahahahahahah!!!:fork:

 

[standing_alone]

And that would be me. I believe that there is only one type of heavenly glory and only one way to get there (the knowlegde of Jesus Christ).

I have knowledge about Jesus Christ - that he is regarded as the savior, but I don't believe he was a savior (or even existed). Does my "knowledge" of Jesus mean that I will go to Heaven? Or do I have to believe all that other stuff?

What if I believed Jesus Christ was my savior, but rejected much else of the Bible?

 

[CrystalSnow]

What about people who lived their entire lives without ever having heard of Jesus Christ? What about someone who lived before He did or even after He did, but in a part of the world where His gospel was virtually unknown. If the choice you speak of was not available to them, what do you believe their fate will be?

It may be sad, but they go to hell. Or at least, that's according to my beliefs anyway (highly debated topic). Every being is born with the knowledge that there is something greater than them. It is their responsibility to search and find what that is. And it is our responsibility to make it known to them. After all, God called us to spread the word ("Great Commission")

 

[zombieharlot]

Not everyone is going to heaven. If you don't have a relationship with God, then that was your choice. And every choice consequence, whether it be good or bad. The consequence for trusting in God, letting Him lead you in life, and believing that Jesus Christ came to the Earth and literally died for your sins, means that you're going to heaven. Anyother choice sends you straight to hell.

And thus, I exercise in futility.

 

[Buttons*]

And that would be me. I believe that there is only one type of heavenly glory and only one way to get there (the knowlegde of Jesus Christ).

so what does this have to do with predestination?

 

[standing_alone]

Every being is born with the knowledge that there is something greater than them.

Are they really?

 

[CrystalSnow]

I have knowledge about Jesus Christ - that he is regarded as the savior, but I don't believe he was a savior (or even existed). Does my "knowledge" of Jesus mean that I will go to Heaven? Or do I have to believe all that other stuff?

What if I believed Jesus Christ was my savior, but rejected much else of the Bible?

By "knowledge of Jesus Christ" I mean to say that you believe that he came and died for your sins, and because he gave this huge sacrifice you follow what the Bible preaches. Basically by saying "knowledge of Jesus Christ" I tried to shorten all that down. But I suppose that in the long run since I had to write it down anyway, it didn't really help

 

[Buttons*]

Are they really?

according to her they are

but honestly, who can say?

Are we predestined to find god? Do we make our god our philosophies, our feelings, our materials? Is there something great than ourselves that we have to find? and if this god had predestined our lives, wouldnt that mean that we all would believe in him because our will is not our own?

BRING IT ON!!!!! :drool:

 

[CrystalSnow]

Are we predestined to find god? Do we make our god our philosophies, our feelings, our materials? Is there something great than ourselves that we have to find? and if this god had predestined our lives, wouldnt that mean that we all would believe in him because our will is not our own?

Heylo, my love. Sorry, my sweet, but I don't know how to answer your question....s. *mind is dead now*