Prayer: divine intervention or deferred morality?

[robtex]

If you are one that prays and does not act upon the situation you are praying for it falls into one of two categories

1) You are unable to help
2) You are unwilling to help.

Examples of # 1 might include resources, distance, lack of funds or lack of time.

If you pray and do not act on it and # 2 is a larger factor than # 1 could your prayer, which is asking for divine intervention be seen as a system of deferred morality?

For example. You see an animal hit on the side of the road bleeding but alive. If you have the money (or the vet doesn't charge) and time and resources to take the animal to the vet but pray instead for its safetly can that be seen as deferred morality?

If you see a political agenda you personally view as amoral but choose to pray rather than vote or lobby is that deferred morality?

If you are able to help in any situation but choose to pray instead are you deferring resonsiblity to God and if so is that "deferred morality?" As a footnote notice I did not say it was amoral but deferred morality. Deferred meaning passing resonsiblity but not meaning being non-moral in action or practice.

 

[mormonman]

I'm not sure I get what your trying to say.

When you pray for something you have to do everything in your power to further your cause. If I prayed that I'll get an A on a test, and not study, I can't expect any divine help. But, if I study my heart out and pray for help on the test, I can expect God's help. You have to help your self or others before God helps.

 

[robtex]

I'm not sure I get what your trying to say.

Think of it as a flow chart. Say you make a prayer. Within the bounds of that prayer you have

1) make a prayer and get involved personally
2) make a prayer and dont' get involved personally

If you chose option one than the thread question doesn't apply. If you choose # 2 there are two reasons

1) You cannot due to limitiations on time, resources or other
2) You can but choose not to.

If you choose option # 1 the thread question does not apply. If you choose #2 again than what you are saying is you made the emotional investment in the situation in the form of prayer however you chose not to personally intervene. If this is correct would be fair and reasonable to state you are practicing a form of deferred morality, by delegating responsiblity to God by petitioning his intervention via prayer?

By your answer you are stating that the two are not seperable. Which would mean the question is inapplicable. But lets take your example of studying for a test. Say you have a big test and you want an A on it. However, due to uncontroble circumstances you get a flat tire that day, come down with a cold, and your pet gets lost for a large part of the day. You find your pet fix your tire and heal your cold but are not able to prepare the way you wanted to for the test.

Your class is graded on a bell curve meaning if you score a high grade it will be to the detriment of the other students in the class. If you pray to God for an "A" because of your circumstances is that a form of deferred morality?

 

[Feathers in Hair]

I think it is.

I'm sad to say that doesn't mean I haven't been 'guilty' of it, at times, though. Once, when I was driving home from my overnight job, I was taking the regular highway home to get some sleep. I saw a duck that had wandered onto the road and was sitting calmly between the lanes, looking mildly annoyed and quacking at all the cars that were swerving into the other lane to miss it. I pulled off and went onto the road, but every time I would get close to it (it didn't look injured, but it didn't seem to want to move), a car would barely miss me, or I'd be hit with a wave of empathy for the creature. I pleaded with it from the side to come over and kept trying to brave the road, but I just couldn't reach it.

I had to eventually get back in my car and drive away. I still feel guilty about it. I don't think that praying for it 'lessened' my guilt or responsibility in my failure, but it made me feel a little better.

 

[steve at JRM]

Heartfelt prayers get results. Many times the results are not obvious, but sometimes the result is undeniable. Even an atheist gets answers, but if you don't believe, you don't recognize the results.

 

[robtex]

Heartfelt prayers get results. Many times the results are not obvious, but sometimes the result is undeniable. Even an atheist gets answers, but if you don't believe, you don't recognize the results.

I am not structuring an arguement around the notion that prayers don't work. I am argueing that if you pray when you had the opportunity (see post # 3) to help could that be considered deferred morality?

 

[linwood]

But, if I study my heart out and pray for help on the test, I can expect God's help.

Man, my kids going to be at a serious disadvantage when she gets to kindergarten.
:biglaugh:

I think it would be defered morality Rob.

I think however that most theists in our society live by a "God helps those who help themselves " type of creed.

 

[linwood]

I had to eventually get back in my car and drive away. I still feel guilty about it. I don't think that praying for it 'lessened' my guilt or responsibility in my failure, but it made me feel a little better.

I don`t think your story fits the OP Feathers, whether you succeeded or not sure sounds like you tried.
Be careful with the duck herding on busy highways girl!!

 

[robtex]

I am going to concur with LInwood on your example. Within the flowchart on post three you were unable after attempting, to safely shoo the animal away. Trust me when I tell you carrying the bird would not have been an option. But the example aside, why do you agree with it as a notion of deferred morality?

 

[steve at JRM]

I would have to say that God helps those who help others. My teachings tell me not to worry about myself, because God will help me. I should focus my efforts on people who are needier than I. That way, someone who has more than me might help me if I need it. So I pray for other people. Or I pray that God has me do his will. Then the pressure is off of my shoulders, and my actions are in Gods hands. And I verify my actions with the teaching of the bible.

 

[lovedmb]

I'm not sure I get what your trying to say.

When you pray for something you have to do everything in your power to further your cause. If I prayed that I'll get an A on a test, and not study, I can't expect any divine help. But, if I study my heart out and pray for help on the test, I can expect God's help. You have to help your self or others before God helps.

I agree with your analogy for self, but not for others. Why wouldn't God help my sick child if I don't pray for them? Why wouldn't God stop a tornado from hitting someone's home if *you* or some other passer by doesn't pray for that?

 

[lovedmb]

I think it would be defered morality Rob.

I think however that most theists in our society live by a "God helps those who help themselves " type of creed.

I agree. On both counts.

 

[robtex]

I agree with your analogy for self, but not for others. Why wouldn't God help my sick child if I don't pray for them? Why wouldn't God stop a tornado from hitting someone's home if *you* or some other passer by doesn't pray for that?

Could be a great thread starter for the notion of predestination.