Poor little atheist has no morals

[Simurgh]

When people find out that I am an atheist, they usually assume that I have neither morals, nor common sense.

The no moral thing is predicated upon the “fact” that only religious people can be moral because their god(s) demand it; the common sense thing has to do with the “fact” that everyone knows that only god can have created the universe in general and humanity in particular.

These same people also often assume that atheists are satan worshippers and will not believe that someone who does not belief gods exist is hard-pressed to account for devils and demons.

What is your experience in the realm of the godly people? Anything funny, sad, disturbing, or simply mind boggling to recount?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

When people find out that I am an atheist, they usually assume that I have neither morals, nor common sense.

The no moral thing is predicated upon the “fact” that only religious people can be moral because their god(s) demand it; the common sense thing has to do with the “fact” that everyone knows that only god can have created the universe in general and humanity in particular.

These same people also often assume that atheists are satan worshippers and will not believe that someone who does not belief gods exist is hard-pressed to account for devils and demons.

What is your experience in the realm of the godly people? Anything funny, sad, disturbing, or simply mind boggling to recount?

I haven't encountered a legit, REAL Theist who believes in those things about atheists; except the morality one does have a good premise behind it, but it can go against Theists as well.

 

[9Westy9]

pretty much everything in this thread http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/atheism-dir/139569-stupid-things-you-hear-about-atheism.html

 

[Falvlun]

When people find out that I am an atheist, they usually assume that I have neither morals, nor common sense.

The no moral thing is predicated upon the “fact” that only religious people can be moral because their god(s) demand it; the common sense thing has to do with the “fact” that everyone knows that only god can have created the universe in general and humanity in particular.

These same people also often assume that atheists are satan worshippers and will not believe that someone who does not belief gods exist is hard-pressed to account for devils and demons.

What is your experience in the realm of the godly people? Anything funny, sad, disturbing, or simply mind boggling to recount?

It was pretty sad and disappointing and frustrating that when I "came out" to my family as a non-Christian (I was even still a theist at the time), both my mother and my sister innately decided they could no longer trust my judgement. They informed me of this, separately and casually. My mother would call me at college, frantic, because she was sure I was now having wanton sex and doing drugs and "making wrong decisions for my life", even though I had always been and remained, a pretty straight and narrow kid. And my sister, which hurt even more, said that she couldn't accept my advice, since we "no longer shared the same morals."

I don't think it was even a conscious or reasoned decision. It seemed like it was just an obvious fact to them, a priori knowledge, that since I was no longer a Christian, I simply couldn't have responsible, set, normal morals.

I hope that such knee-jerk beliefs will fade away, as more atheists become mainstream and common.

 

[Simurgh]

It was pretty sad and disappointing and frustrating that when I "came out" to my family as a non-Christian (I was even still a theist at the time), both my mother and my sister innately decided they could no longer trust my judgement. They informed me of this, separately and casually. My mother would call me at college, frantic, because she was sure I was now having wanton sex and doing drugs and "making wrong decisions for my life", even though I had always been and remained, a pretty straight and narrow kid. And my sister, which hurt even more, said that she couldn't accept my advice, since we "no longer shared the same morals."

I don't think it was even a conscious or reasoned decision. It seemed like it was just an obvious fact to them, a priori knowledge, that since I was no longer a Christian, I simply couldn't have responsible, set, normal morals.
I hope that such knee-jerk beliefs will fade away, as more atheists become mainstream and common.

My mother is a staunch catholic an totally convinced that I am going to hell. My sister—who has been held up as being my moral superior—simply wanted to know why I don’t just keep my mouth shut, go to church and fake it like she does just to keep our mother happy. I declined, not possessing the same moral compass she does.

 

[Amechania]

What is your experience in the realm of the godly people? Anything funny, sad, disturbing, or simply mind boggling to recount?

My experience of Christians is that they do not believe they are of themselves any more or less moral than a non-believer because they believe that only God is moral and that their salvation is by that God's grace, an "unmerited favor" that is freely offered to anyone who confesses faith in Christ. The only morality they recognize is Christ, who is percieved as the personifacation of love and service, which they endeavor to emulate. If you've encountered Christians who are judging you personally they are violating their own ethical code.

 

[Simurgh]

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Finding Marxists in the US is a daunting quest. Unless you think that everyone who is not a right-wing evangelic is a Marxist, in which case I guess some of us would qualify. Then again, I know sufficient political conservatives who are atheists too. It is a false dichotomy to divide the world into two spheres: religious = capitalist = conservative = moral and atheist = Marxist = liberal = amoral.

In my experience the morality of religious people is just as situational as that of non-religious people. Or is it a mark of a fixed morality to proclaim possessing one while doing everything possible to negate this assertion?

To hide behind so-called religious morality while performing acts of perversion, committing sins (as defined by said religion), acting unethical in general, and self-righteously judging those who are different in belief, politics, sexual orientation, and all and sundry categories that seem to threaten the “safe” existence of the religious person might be status quo for some. Is that the kind of “fixed” morality you are referring to?

And what is collective morality that atheists are accused of? Does it concern the fact that we are moral in spite of not having a god who threatens us into compliance with his rules and/or laws? Is it a shortcoming of atheists that they build their morals on what benefits the common good rather than some religious rule, which in the end comes from the same source; namely the need to act in a socially acceptable manner to assure the survival of same society?

 

[LuisDantas]

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There are many who disagree, myself included. Morals are objective insofar as they must refer to the well-being of sensitive and sentient beings and social environments.

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Those are strong generalizations, not warranted.

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Really? You may benefit from a second look at the matter.

 

[LuisDantas]

What is your experience in the realm of the godly people? Anything funny, sad, disturbing, or simply mind boggling to recount?

It varies a lot. Some refuse to believe I'm an atheist or even that atheism exists; some eventually use my atheism as an excuse to blame me for their weaknesses. Quite a few, I assume, refuse to admit that they reject me due to my atheism while nevertheless keeping me at arm's length.

Thankfully, there are wonderful exceptions.

 

[dgirl1986]

*blind post*

Ive seen this attitude towards atheists a lot on forums, not so much in real life though. I don't understand where it comes from.

 

[Simurgh]

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You equate pacifists with Marxists and then you postulate that we are in a war with Islam. Your conflation of these terms makes me wonder just how grounded in reality you are.

Since when is rational thinking a Marxist prerogative? Morality need not be grounded in religion and religion is not necessarily moral either. It is a human construct and therefore open to human failing.

You may prefer dogma to rational thought and humanistic morality, but so what? Your religion pulls your strings, as it were. That does not necessarily mean that atheist need their strings pulled in equal measure by some body of self-appointed arbiters of morality.

You say yourself that people who choose a religion choose a moral dogma that suits them. So there is no such thing as a fixed morality. It does not exists since religious people choose the moral they like—or none as all those religious pillars of the community prove when they get arrested and/or brought up on charges of malfeasance. Religion does not automatically equate to morality.

So what if morality based on the common good sounds Marxist. Why should it matter what it sounds like. It’s not as if Marxism were anything but a political theory, just like religion is a theory. Both serve their purpose and neither is necessarily needed to live. And as for morality constantly changing, what does that mean? Religious people do what is expedient for them and their morality changes as well. Or do you and those who follow your ideology of a deity agree on everything and have done so since the inception of that particular faith?

What about all those fundamentalist groups? Even they find it inconvenient to follow Leviticus which should be at the foundation of xtian morality, should it not? So who then pulled those strings?

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

Morality is neither totally subjective or totally objective. The word Michael Shermer uses is pretty accurate, "provisional". Basically meaning that while the general moral code of a group is flexible enough to accommodate for growth and change, it's rigid enough to need long periods of time and or serious social upheavals to change it significantly. Due to morality's evolutionary origin some things are simply bred into us to abhor, such as violence/exploitation of children and women, murder of those within our in-groups, theft/deception. The less imperative values (by imperative i mean for survival, not saying they're not important) such as racial/gender equality, animal rights, freedom/liberty, caring for the old and the sick, etc. are all part of growing into larger societies which include greater diversity and societal maturity.

also, religions do not provide morality for those who adhere to them. morality is codified by religious doctrine, but the framework for morality already exists within the individual before even being exposed to religion. this codification does not need to come from on high, it can be adopted from the people-group one lives in, or even carefully crafted for yourself. looking at the system this way gives individuals the freedom to determine their own specifics on certain issues while taking into consideration the rigidity of the larger group dynamics on the subject of morally acceptable norms.

 

[LuisDantas]

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It depends on the medical justifications and the circunstances. But it is not subjective.

 

[LuisDantas]

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Morality and ethics aren't really something people can live without.

 

[LuisDantas]

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That is quite the flippant attitude for a DIR, but I will give you a straight answer anyway.

No, morals and ethics are needed because they allow for a certain level of cooperation and harmony among people. It really is that simple.

 

[LuisDantas]

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Really? I find that unlikely to the point of wondering if you would point me towards some examples.

In my experience law is basically unrelated to either morality, ethics or well-being. Not that I hold it against the law itself; it is, after all, just law. The failure is in forcing it into a moral role that it can't possibly fulfill.

 

[LuisDantas]

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No. I take it that you disagree?

 

[McBell]

*blind post*

Ive seen this attitude towards atheists a lot on forums, not so much in real life though. I don't understand where it comes from.

I suspect it has to do with the safety they feel being able to anonymously attack someone on the internet.

And I am not in any way saying that theists have a monopoly on it.

 

[McBell]

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Neither

 

[McBell]

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You seem to be counting the hits and ignoring the misses...
For examples:

Kent Hovind
Texx Marrs
Tony Alamo
Jim Baker
Ted Haggart
Kenneth Copeland
Anthony Hopkins
​