Plato's Allegory Of The Cave?

[John D. Brey]

The path to relinquishing desire and attachment is the eightfold path of right view, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration.

. . . Right wing. You left, so to say, that out. Are you a leftest? That's not right. Right?



John

 

[John D. Brey]

Presumably William Blake had Plato’s allegory in mind when he observed, “If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, Infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things through the chinks of his cavern.”

Blake, visionary that he was, saw more than most. Each of us however, sees but little; Blake, like the Buddha, appears to be saying that we are deceived by veils of illusion which originate within us. We can begin the process of broadening our perceptions, and raising our consciousness, by learning to recognise and tune out the chattering of the ego. Once we realise that the voice in our head, the relentless inner monologue, is the illusory voice of a false self, we can begin to disregard it, and so become tuned to other frequencies. Through prayer and meditation, we can raise a corner of the veil, or cleanse the doors of perception.

The common external phenomena of the physical and biotic world pass through a transforming filter created by the peculiar biology of each species, and it is the output of this transformation that reaches the organism and is relevant to it. Plato's metaphor of the cave is appropriate here. Whatever the autonomous processes of the outer world may be, they cannot be perceived by the organism. Its life is determined by the shadows on the wall, passed through a transforming medium of its own creation.

Professor of Biology, Richard Lewontin, The Triple Helix.​

Which informs what I said to Mike earlier in the thread:

What I would consider the inaccuracy of your second statement is that by climbing the mountain to get a better perspective, you're still using the flawed preprogramming of your means of perception as the window on reality: you're still stuck in your own phenomenology (what your genes tell you you're seeing).​

Living according to the precepts of the genes is ok. It's just not a real life so to say:

. . . a person . . . [can] go on living fairly well, seem to be a man, be occupied with temporal matters, marry, have children, be honored and esteemed --- and it may not be detected that in a deeper sense he lacks a self. Such things do not create much of a stir in the world, for a self is the last thing the world cares about and the most dangerous thing of all for a person to show signs of having. The greatest hazard of all, the losing the self, can occur very quietly in the world, as if it were nothing at all. No other loss can occur so quietly; any other loss -- an arm, a leg, five dollars, a wife, etc. -- is sure to be noticed.

Kierkegaard, The Sickness Unto Death, p.32, 33.​

John

 

[Pudding]

View attachment 63610

Do you believe we humans are in the same predicament as the men in the cave in Plato's Allegory Of The Cave?

To quote Wikipedia:

…a group of people who have lived chained to the wall of a cave all their lives, facing a blank wall. The people watch shadows projected on the wall from objects passing in front of a fire behind them and give names to these shadows. The shadows are the prisoners’ reality, but are not accurate representations of the real world.
​

I do!

I believe that our reality is a computer simulation

And that it is a fairly crude simulation too but that we don't know any better!

To me, Plato's cave scenario resembles the truth of our condition to a very great degree

All we have ever known and can ever know are only shadows - that bear only a very minimal resemblance to anything that exists outside The Simulation

Were we to ever exit The Simulation our puny simulated minds would be totally blown

No, i haven't been convince to believe:
(1) Our reality is a computer simulation.
(2) It is a fairly crude simulation but that we don't know any better.
(3) All we have ever known and can ever know are only shadows - that bear only a very minimal resemblance to anything that exists outside The Simulation.
(4) Were we to ever exit The Simulation our puny simulated minds would be totally blown.

If you wish to debate about the validity of your statements, or if you wish to convince people to believe your statements are facts, then please provide good objective evidence to support your statements, thanks.

 

[Eddi]

If you wish to debate about the validity of your statements

I have compelling first-hand experience which is very personal to me.....

or if you wish to convince people to believe your statements are facts,

...and I don't care if people don't believe me and I don't expect them to

I'm not out to persuade anyone of anything, consequently I don't have to justify my beliefs to anyone

Indeed I operate under the assumption that nobody will believe me

I'm here to enjoy reading (and to partake in) interesting conversations, that's all

 

[RamaRaksha]

View attachment 63610

Do you believe we humans are in the same predicament as the men in the cave in Plato's Allegory Of The Cave?

To quote Wikipedia:

…a group of people who have lived chained to the wall of a cave all their lives, facing a blank wall. The people watch shadows projected on the wall from objects passing in front of a fire behind them and give names to these shadows. The shadows are the prisoners’ reality, but are not accurate representations of the real world.
​

I do!

I believe that our reality is a computer simulation

And that it is a fairly crude simulation too but that we don't know any better!

To me, Plato's cave scenario resembles the truth of our condition to a very great degree

All we have ever known and can ever know are only shadows - that bear only a very minimal resemblance to anything that exists outside The Simulation

Were we to ever exit The Simulation our puny simulated minds would be totally blown

To me the presence of a God would be a clear indicator that we are in a simulation
Since God cannot tell how he came to be and how he has all these incredible powers, he must have been created & since instead of creating a whole world, it is much simpler to create such a world in your computer, create God and give him these "incredible powers", we can see that a kid created God and the rest followed

In fact the fact that we are all alone in this vast universe may be another indicator that we may be in a simulation
Why create tons of life forms if someone wanted to study what we did - just create one
And of course the huge universe that we "see" out there doesn't really exist it is all a simulation just like us