Plant Sentience

[The Hammer]

The Inner Lives of Plants: Cognition, Sentience, and Ethics

It would appear that we need to do more studies into the inner lives of the Plant Kingdom. It's apparent to most of us that are Animist, that plants have sentience, but is not a widely accepted position for sure.

"Plants are susceptible to anesthesia; lidocaine applied to roots works well to knock out plants."

""Plants display cognition—flexible and goal-directed behavior. When climbing a pole, a clever bean makes "broad, circular sweeps of their surroundings, growing as they go. As they home in on a pole, some beans will suddenly lunge towards it like a drunken pub-goer taking a swing at someone. It is a rapid, directed change in behaviour. This suggests the plant isn’t simply running a pre-programmed pole-seeking sequence." ""

IMO if a Jellyfish without a brain is considered living and sentient. Then why not plants?

 

[Father Heathen]

if a Jellyfish without a brain is considered living and sentient.

Are they? I thought being sentient meant having a form of consciousness.

 

[The Hammer]

Are they? I thought being sentient meant having a form of consciousness.

The respond to stimuli, they are mobile, and they hunt, and engage in self preservation. I would say yes.

They may not be self-aware, but not all animals are.

Edit: some Jellyfish even reproduce sexually, as opposed to asexually.

 

[Polymath257]

I'm pretty sure I would NOT classify a jellyfish as sentient. They are certainly alive and react to their environment. And yes, plants do as well. But I don't see anything that I would call sentience (as opposed to responsiveness).

 

[PureX]

Reality is not made up of "this and that". It's an infinite number of inter-related degrees and variations that we humans define by imposing a "this and that" matrix upon them. To simplify and categorize it all for our own convenience. All living things express something of the various kinds and degrees of "sentience". But we would be foolish to use some very slight kind or degree of sentience as an excuse to exaggerate.

 

[pearl]

When climbing a pole, a clever bean makes "broad, circular sweeps of their surroundings, growing as they go.

I have witnessed this every year in my yard and surrounding neighbors' yards. One can see the determination of this plant, the strength of this is amazing, especially of witnessed during a strong wind.
Its this ability that makes them such a nuisance.

""Plants display cognition—flexible and goal-directed behavior.

If you watch a person in a 'vegetive' state the person will usually torn toward the light, just as plants do.

 

[The Hammer]

I'm pretty sure I would NOT classify a jellyfish as sentient. They are certainly alive and react to their environment. And yes, plants do as well. But I don't see anything that I would call sentience (as opposed to responsiveness).

Alive and reacting to the environment IS sentience IMV.

"feeling or sensation as distinguished from perception and thought.".

I would argue that plants display this. As do jellyfish.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Reality is not made up of "this and that". It's an infinite number of inter-related degrees and variations that we humans define by imposing a "this and that" matrix upon them. To simplify and categorize it all for our own convenience. All living things express something of the various kinds and degrees of "sentience". But we would be foolish to use some very slight kind or degree of sentience as an excuse to exaggerate.

Yes -- or, to once again quote Alfred Korzybski, "The map is not the territory."

 

[Truth in love]

The Inner Lives of Plants: Cognition, Sentience, and Ethics

It would appear that we need to do more studies into the inner lives of the Plant Kingdom. It's apparent to most of us that are Animist, that plants have sentience, but is not a widely accepted position for sure.

"Plants are susceptible to anesthesia; lidocaine applied to roots works well to knock out plants."

""Plants display cognition—flexible and goal-directed behavior. When climbing a pole, a clever bean makes "broad, circular sweeps of their surroundings, growing as they go. As they home in on a pole, some beans will suddenly lunge towards it like a drunken pub-goer taking a swing at someone. It is a rapid, directed change in behaviour. This suggests the plant isn’t simply running a pre-programmed pole-seeking sequence." ""

IMO if a Jellyfish without a brain is considered living and sentient. Then why not plants?

So what will PETP people eat?

 

[Polymath257]

Alive and reacting to the environment IS sentience IMV.

"feeling or sensation as distinguished from perception and thought.".

I would argue that plants display this. As do jellyfish.

I see this as a BIG part of the problem in discussing these things. Everyone has a different set of definitions and intuitions and uses the words in a different way. So real communication is limited to figuring out what another person is actually saying. This is a difficulty even in the science, where terminology is far from standardized.

As an example, does a thermostat have sensations? it detects and reacts to external stimuli. or do you limit the term sensation to those things that are *alive* and react to external stimuli (which ALL living things do, plants, animals, fungi, bacteria, etc)?

 

[Twilight Hue]

I have witnessed this every year in my yard and surrounding neighbors' yards. One can see the determination of this plant, the strength of this is amazing, especially of witnessed during a strong wind.
Its this ability that makes them such a nuisance.



If you watch a person in a 'vegetive' state the person will usually torn toward the light, just as plants do.

Take in mind a plants composition is entirely made up by other living organisms working together. Not surprising a human in such a state would act in a similar manner.

 

[We Never Know]

The Inner Lives of Plants: Cognition, Sentience, and Ethics

It would appear that we need to do more studies into the inner lives of the Plant Kingdom. It's apparent to most of us that are Animist, that plants have sentience, but is not a widely accepted position for sure.

"Plants are susceptible to anesthesia; lidocaine applied to roots works well to knock out plants."

""Plants display cognition—flexible and goal-directed behavior. When climbing a pole, a clever bean makes "broad, circular sweeps of their surroundings, growing as they go. As they home in on a pole, some beans will suddenly lunge towards it like a drunken pub-goer taking a swing at someone. It is a rapid, directed change in behaviour. This suggests the plant isn’t simply running a pre-programmed pole-seeking sequence." ""

IMO if a Jellyfish without a brain is considered living and sentient. Then why not plants?

Plant communication

"Plants emit volatile organic compounds (VOCs) as a means to warn other plants of impending danger. Nearby plants exposed to the induced VOCs prepare their own defense weapons in response.

Plant communication: Mediated by individual or blended VOCs?.

Mown grass smell sends SOS for help in resisting insect attacks

"The smell of cut grass in recent years has been identified as the plant's way of signalling distress, but new research says the aroma also summons beneficial insects to the rescue. Such findings may help plant breeders know how to develop new varieties that are more resistant to insects and drought."

Mown grass smell sends SOS for help in resisting insect attacks

 

[The Hammer]

I see this as a BIG part of the problem in discussing these things. Everyone has a different set of definitions and intuitions and uses the words in a different way. So real communication is limited to figuring out what another person is actually saying. This is a difficulty even in the science, where terminology is far from standardized.

As an example, does a thermostat have sensations? it detects and reacts to external stimuli. or do you limit the term sensation to those things that are *alive* and react to external stimuli (which ALL living things do, plants, animals, fungi, bacteria, etc)?

Ah, but what is "alive"?

Yes, a lot of it comes down to how one interprets the terms/what they mean, I guess. The article mentions "integrated information theory" as a method of assessment.

But your comment also kind of reminds me of this quote:

To answer your question, I would say it pertains to living things mostly. I think most living things have some sentience.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Ah, but what is "alive"?

Yes, a lot of it comes down to how one interprets the terms/what they mean, I guess. The article mentions "integrated information theory" as a method of assessment.

But your comment also kind of reminds me of this quote:

View attachment 66468

To answer your question, I would say it pertains to living things mostly. I think most living things have some sentience.

Yet we are entirely made up of atoms.

Begs the question. Are atoms alive?

 

[The Hammer]

Yet we are entirely made up of atoms.

Begs the question. Are atoms alive?

Probably

 

[Polymath257]

To answer your question, I would say it pertains to living things mostly. I think most living things have some sentience.

And, with your definition, I would agree. Actually, I would go further and say ALL living things have sentience in your sense of the word.

ALL living things react to their environment. All detect things about that environment and change what they do in response to that.

Plants are actually quite complex organisms that react in quite complex ways to what is around them. They are more dependent on chemical signals than we are.

But, for example, the way plants react to sunlight is pretty strictly defined. The parts of the plant that are darker grow more at certain stages which is why plants tend to direct towards the sun. I forget the relevant chemical messenger, but it is almost universal in green plants (as opposed to fungi, which are also fascinating).

 

[Polymath257]

Yet we are entirely made up of atoms.

Begs the question. Are atoms alive?

Not by any standard definition of 'alive'.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Plants scream when stressed or hurt — they’re ‘rather noisy’: study​

Thirsty or stressed plants emit popping sounds undetectable to the human ear, according to research published Thursday in the journal Cell.

Tel Aviv University scientists used special microphones to record ultrasonic sounds produced by tomato and tobacco plants inside a sound-protected box and a greenhouse.

The researchers say they developed machine learning models to identify the condition of the plants, including if they were dehydrated or diseased, based on the detected sounds.

“From previous studies we know that vibrometers attached to plants record vibrations. But do these vibrations also become airborne soundwaves — namely sounds that can be recorded from a distance? Our study addressed this question, which researchers have been debating for many years,” study coauthor Lilach Hadany said in a statement.

 

[Yerda]

We infer sentience based on behaviour and plant "behaviour" doesn't suggest (to me) that they that are the location of subjective experience.

 

[John53]

The Inner Lives of Plants: Cognition, Sentience, and Ethics

It would appear that we need to do more studies into the inner lives of the Plant Kingdom. It's apparent to most of us that are Animist, that plants have sentience, but is not a widely accepted position for sure.

"Plants are susceptible to anesthesia; lidocaine applied to roots works well to knock out plants."

""Plants display cognition—flexible and goal-directed behavior. When climbing a pole, a clever bean makes "broad, circular sweeps of their surroundings, growing as they go. As they home in on a pole, some beans will suddenly lunge towards it like a drunken pub-goer taking a swing at someone. It is a rapid, directed change in behaviour. This suggests the plant isn’t simply running a pre-programmed pole-seeking sequence." ""

IMO if a Jellyfish without a brain is considered living and sentient. Then why not plants?

I must grow dumb beans because I always have to guide them to the trellis.