Perceived racism

[dianaiad]

OK...here's the background (and if this is in the wrong place, mods, feel free to put it where it belongs).

Since I was diagnosed with cancer seven years ago, I made a conscious decision. Whenever I see someone (female...doing this with males makes them uncomfortable!) who is wearing something special, like a really pretty hat, or a scarf...or especially going bald after chemo...or if she is exceptionally classy that day, or her hair is great, or her shoes are spectacular, I say so. In seven years I've never had anything less than a positive reaction; I always get a smile, and an obvious 'lift' in whoever I talk to. I make a point, to be honest, of finding something good about those who look the most unhappy. It doesn't cure the world, but it helps a little.

Now I have a broken left arm, and can't really move my left fingers much, broadly. Typing is fine, but it doesn't involve the wrist. Keep this in mind, OK? This morning, as well, I was tied to the IV pole on my right side, so my right arm was not available for gesturing. This is also important. Really.

One of the nurses, a gorgeous black woman who I've seen before, was particularly classy today. Her hair was perfect, her 'scrubs' were colorful and fun, and she wore 'diamonds' (OK, so they weren't diamonds, stay with me here) in her hair. She really looked glamorous/classy...and very busy.

So while I was getting 'unhooked' from the IV, and she was passing close by, I beckoned to her with the index finger 'come here' gesture. Remember: I physically could not do a 'whole hand' gesture or an arm wave, and I didn't want to shout all over the room. She looked at me and said "don't do that. I don't appreciate that. It's demeaning and disrespectful."

She said that again...I didn't understand the problem. All I wanted to do was compliment her on her appearance, something she is well aware that I do; she's seen me do it many times. I COULD NOT get her to come closer to my chair...she was so insulted, so I just said it. "All I wanted to do was tell you that I thought you were pretty today."

Her boss (who was unhooking me at the time) wasn't thrilled with her, but her reaction made me cry. I've been unhappy and worried about it all day, to be honest. I certainly didn't INTEND any disrespect; quite the opposite. I don't care too hoots what color her skin is. She was just classy and I wanted to say so. So...who was the racist here, and what do I do about it?

Because I WILL have to work with her, depend on it, and she thinks, quite obviously, that I'm trash.

 

[Father Heathen]

Did you share these feelings with her boss who was present? She needs to know that it was a misunderstanding, that it bothered you so and was terrible bedside manner.

 

[Watchmen]

I’m trying to figure out the connection between your post and the title of the thread. Where was the “perceived racism?”

 

[SoyLeche]

I’m trying to figure out the connection between your post and the title of the thread. Where was the “perceived racism?”

I was thinking the same thing. The nurse responded poorly it seems (likely had had a bad day), but I’m not necessarily seeing “perceived racism” on either side.

 

[Harel13]

I thought the problem was that you gestured with your finger which kind of seems like you're calling a small child or maybe a lackey, bearing in mind that the nurse doesn't know your whole background thought process.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

OK...here's the background (and if this is in the wrong place, mods, feel free to put it where it belongs).

Since I was diagnosed with cancer seven years ago, I made a conscious decision. Whenever I see someone (female...doing this with males makes them uncomfortable!) who is wearing something special, like a really pretty hat, or a scarf...or especially going bald after chemo...or if she is exceptionally classy that day, or her hair is great, or her shoes are spectacular, I say so. In seven years I've never had anything less than a positive reaction; I always get a smile, and an obvious 'lift' in whoever I talk to. I make a point, to be honest, of finding something good about those who look the most unhappy. It doesn't cure the world, but it helps a little.

Now I have a broken left arm, and can't really move my left fingers much, broadly. Typing is fine, but it doesn't involve the wrist. Keep this in mind, OK? This morning, as well, I was tied to the IV pole on my right side, so my right arm was not available for gesturing. This is also important. Really.

One of the nurses, a gorgeous black woman who I've seen before, was particularly classy today. Her hair was perfect, her 'scrubs' were colorful and fun, and she wore 'diamonds' (OK, so they weren't diamonds, stay with me here) in her hair. She really looked glamorous/classy...and very busy.

So while I was getting 'unhooked' from the IV, and she was passing close by, I beckoned to her with the index finger 'come here' gesture. Remember: I physically could not do a 'whole hand' gesture or an arm wave, and I didn't want to shout all over the room. She looked at me and said "don't do that. I don't appreciate that. It's demeaning and disrespectful."

She said that again...I didn't understand the problem. All I wanted to do was compliment her on her appearance, something she is well aware that I do; she's seen me do it many times. I COULD NOT get her to come closer to my chair...she was so insulted, so I just said it. "All I wanted to do was tell you that I thought you were pretty today."

Her boss (who was unhooking me at the time) wasn't thrilled with her, but her reaction made me cry. I've been unhappy and worried about it all day, to be honest. I certainly didn't INTEND any disrespect; quite the opposite. I don't care too hoots what color her skin is. She was just classy and I wanted to say so. So...who was the racist here, and what do I do about it?

Because I WILL have to work with her, depend on it, and she thinks, quite obviously, that I'm trash.

I'm not sure if race had much to do with it. To some people, being beckoned with a single finger can be demeaning and disrespectful, even if you didn't intend it to be or were raised in an environment where it isn't. I'm sure you'd never mean for it to come across that way, but speaking as someone with the social skills of somebody a third of my age, I know it can be really difficult to know ahead of time how an idea that seems good in your head may come across to someone else.

Don't beat yourself up about it. Nurses can be very understanding and willing to listen. Have you tried talking to her and seeing what the problem was from her perspective?

 

[tytlyf]

Because I WILL have to work with her, depend on it, and she thinks, quite obviously, that I'm trash.

Up to that point it doesn't sound like she worked in your room at all. Didn't know your problems and lack of mobility.
It also wouldn't help if you had a red hat laying in the room somewhere, or "multiple" flags everywhere.

 

[dianaiad]

I’m trying to figure out the connection between your post and the title of the thread. Where was the “perceived racism?”

I thought about all day. Wasn't her reaction to me "perceived racisim?" I am very obviously 'white,' complete with very pale complexion, blue eyes and about as 'Caucasian' as it is possible to be. On the other hand, she has skin the color of ebony wood. We could stand for piano keys. Her assumption that my gesture was 'demeaning' seemed pretty obvious to me, now.

And yet it's a gesture that I have used only with people I like; my kids, my friends, my intimates...(shrug) wasn't her reaction to me 'perceived racism" on her part? Her perception of me was that I was being racist?

 

[dianaiad]

Up to that point it doesn't sound like she worked in your room at all. Didn't know your problems and lack of mobility.
It also wouldn't help if you had a red hat laying in the room somewhere, or "multiple" flags everywhere.

(grin) This is a 'chemo' infusion area. All the 'rooms' are simply curtained off areas with comfortable chairs for the patients, who sometimes have to sit there for many hours. Even short, 10 minute infusions can have a patient sit there for an hour or more, while getting set up, etc. NOBODY is sitting in those chairs who isn't getting an infusion of chemotherapy for some form of cancer, unless it's an 'Iron infusion." for anemia. The nurses working there can see everybody in all the chairs, and when the IV alarms go off, any one of them can take care of any patient, even when one of them is 'assigned' to a specific person.

The point is, if you are sitting in a chair tied to an IV pole, you ARE a cancer patient. All of us have some form of mobility lack, about half are in some form of 'growing hair back,' etc., She is a well paid professional with a college degree, an RN. She is HIRED to help give chemo to cancer patients. That's what she does. And I know that.

 

[HonestJoe]

I thought about all day. Wasn't her reaction to me "perceived racisim?" I am very obviously 'white,' complete with very pale complexion, blue eyes and about as 'Caucasian' as it is possible to be. On the other hand, she has skin the color of ebony wood. We could stand for piano keys. Her assumption that my gesture was 'demeaning' seemed pretty obvious to me, now.

I’m with the other replies in that I can’t see anything in what you describe to support the assumption that her reaction had anything to do with race at all.

I could totally understand anyone misinterpreting your beckoning as demeaning or condescending in context and I can totally understand hard working medical staff getting a little snappy on a bad day. They shouldn’t but they’re only human. I’d suggest trying not to make such a big thing of it in your head and move on. If you get the chance to speak with her again, unconditionally apologise for the misunderstanding but certainly don’t bring up the idea of racism. You’re just two human beings, both with all sorts of different problems and worries in your lives. There’s no reason to go out of your way to create even more.

 

[dianaiad]

I'm not sure if race had much to do with it. To some people, being beckoned with a single finger can be demeaning and disrespectful, even if you didn't intend it to be or were raised in an environment where it isn't. I'm sure you'd never mean for it to come across that way, but speaking as someone with the social skills of somebody a third of my age, I know it can be really difficult to know ahead of time how an idea that seems good in your head may come across to someone else.

Don't beat yourself up about it. Nurses can be very understanding and willing to listen. Have you tried talking to her and seeing what the problem was from her perspective?

Two things:

A symbol means what the USER thinks it means. It meant, to me, "please come here because I have something private and friendly to say to you" because if I were upset at her I would have told her boss or been a great deal louder and demanding.

It's a gesture I have used only with those I like, with whom I am friendly, and with whom I wish to have a private word. I've never used, or seen it used, in any other way.

Second thing: the automatic assumption on her part, when she is HIRED to deal with chemo patients and people who can sometimes be obstreperous, "chemically" emotionally altered....have you ever had to deal with people who are on huge amounts of steroids, legally or illegally? She has been trained, quite expensively, actually, to NOT make assumptions that anything a patient does is purposefully meant to be demeaning or disrespectful. In all honesty, most cancer patients in infusion rooms are a lot more worried about how much the IV hurts or how much they want to throw up than how next to humiliate their nurses.

After a day of thinking about this, and I'm still upset (those steroids...) is that she was assuming that everybody around her is racist towards her, and that every thing done to communicate with her has race uppermost in their minds. In a way, she was right about me. I DID include her skin color in my admiration. Her hair, her dress, her choice of ornamentation, wouldn't have looked any where NEAR as classy if her skin were not as dark as it is. I envied her, frankly. I can't wear what she wore and get away with it. I'd look like the clothes were wearing ME.

On the other hand, She wouldn't 'get away' with the pale blues and mauves I can wear. They would wash her right out and that would be a shame.

Ah, well. Now I'm babbling and I shouldn't. I'll probably 'see' her again on Friday. Or not.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Two things:

A symbol means what the USER thinks it means. It meant, to me, "please come here because I have something private and friendly to say to you" because if I were upset at her I would have told her boss or been a great deal louder and demanding.

It's a gesture I have used only with those I like, with whom I am friendly, and with whom I wish to have a private word. I've never used, or seen it used, in any other way.

Second thing: the automatic assumption on her part, when she is HIRED to deal with chemo patients and people who can sometimes be obstreperous, "chemically" emotionally altered....have you ever had to deal with people who are on huge amounts of steroids, legally or illegally? She has been trained, quite expensively, actually, to NOT make assumptions that anything a patient does is purposefully meant to be demeaning or disrespectful. In all honesty, most cancer patients in infusion rooms are a lot more worried about how much the IV hurts or how much they want to throw up than how next to humiliate their nurses.

After a day of thinking about this, and I'm still upset (those steroids...) is that she was assuming that everybody around her is racist towards her, and that every thing done to communicate with her has race uppermost in their minds. In a way, she was right about me. I DID include her skin color in my admiration. Her hair, her dress, her choice of ornamentation, wouldn't have looked any where NEAR as classy if her skin were not as dark as it is. I envied her, frankly. I can't wear what she wore and get away with it. I'd look like the clothes were wearing ME.

On the other hand, She wouldn't 'get away' with the pale blues and mauves I can wear. They would wash her right out and that would be a shame.

Ah, well. Now I'm babbling and I shouldn't. I'll probably 'see' her again on Friday. Or not.

I would still recommend you talk with her if you can. If it's possible for her to misread your gesture, it's also possible for you to misread her reaction, and I'd always advise talking it through with the nurse before coming to a conclusion about her.

 

[SoyLeche]

Two things:

A symbol means what the USER thinks it means. It meant, to me, "please come here because I have something private and friendly to say to you" because if I were upset at her I would have told her boss or been a great deal louder and demanding.

It's a gesture I have used only with those I like, with whom I am friendly, and with whom I wish to have a private word. I've never used, or seen it used, in any other way.

Second thing: the automatic assumption on her part, when she is HIRED to deal with chemo patients and people who can sometimes be obstreperous, "chemically" emotionally altered....have you ever had to deal with people who are on huge amounts of steroids, legally or illegally? She has been trained, quite expensively, actually, to NOT make assumptions that anything a patient does is purposefully meant to be demeaning or disrespectful. In all honesty, most cancer patients in infusion rooms are a lot more worried about how much the IV hurts or how much they want to throw up than how next to humiliate their nurses.

After a day of thinking about this, and I'm still upset (those steroids...) is that she was assuming that everybody around her is racist towards her, and that every thing done to communicate with her has race uppermost in their minds. In a way, she was right about me. I DID include her skin color in my admiration. Her hair, her dress, her choice of ornamentation, wouldn't have looked any where NEAR as classy if her skin were not as dark as it is. I envied her, frankly. I can't wear what she wore and get away with it. I'd look like the clothes were wearing ME.

On the other hand, She wouldn't 'get away' with the pale blues and mauves I can wear. They would wash her right out and that would be a shame.

Ah, well. Now I'm babbling and I shouldn't. I'll probably 'see' her again on Friday. Or not.

1 - I think you are wrong about that. Communication is a 2-way street, and if you want your message to get through you need to make sure that the other person understands the symbol the same way you meant for them to understand it. And that onus is not all on them.

2 - Is it possilbe that she thought you were being racist? Sure. Is it certain? Not in the slightest.

Actually, the only thing close to confirmed racism I've seen in this story is your insistance that she must have thought you were being racist just because she is "ebony" and you are "ivory".

Basically, you have two options in front of you. You can either talk to her and explain that you didn't mean to be disrespectful (do NOT bring up anything about racism). In all likelihood, she doesn't even remember the incident.

Or, you can let it go.

 

[tytlyf]

(grin) This is a 'chemo' infusion area. All the 'rooms' are simply curtained off areas with comfortable chairs for the patients, who sometimes have to sit there for many hours. Even short, 10 minute infusions can have a patient sit there for an hour or more, while getting set up, etc. NOBODY is sitting in those chairs who isn't getting an infusion of chemotherapy for some form of cancer, unless it's an 'Iron infusion." for anemia. The nurses working there can see everybody in all the chairs, and when the IV alarms go off, any one of them can take care of any patient, even when one of them is 'assigned' to a specific person.

The point is, if you are sitting in a chair tied to an IV pole, you ARE a cancer patient. All of us have some form of mobility lack, about half are in some form of 'growing hair back,' etc., She is a well paid professional with a college degree, an RN. She is HIRED to help give chemo to cancer patients. That's what she does. And I know that.

Ya, but didn't you say you broke your arm and the lack of mobility is why you gave her the finger? You must have done something wrong. Gesturing has nothing to do with racism.

 

[dianaiad]

Ya, but didn't you say you broke your arm and the lack of mobility is why you gave her the finger? You must have done something wrong. Gesturing has nothing to do with racism.

uh, I didn't 'give her the finger.' We both know what THAT phrase means!

I beckoned to her using my index finger in the 'come here' gesture.

 

[Shad]

OK...here's the background (and if this is in the wrong place, mods, feel free to put it where it belongs).

Since I was diagnosed with cancer seven years ago, I made a conscious decision. Whenever I see someone (female...doing this with males makes them uncomfortable!) who is wearing something special, like a really pretty hat, or a scarf...or especially going bald after chemo...or if she is exceptionally classy that day, or her hair is great, or her shoes are spectacular, I say so. In seven years I've never had anything less than a positive reaction; I always get a smile, and an obvious 'lift' in whoever I talk to. I make a point, to be honest, of finding something good about those who look the most unhappy. It doesn't cure the world, but it helps a little.

Now I have a broken left arm, and can't really move my left fingers much, broadly. Typing is fine, but it doesn't involve the wrist. Keep this in mind, OK? This morning, as well, I was tied to the IV pole on my right side, so my right arm was not available for gesturing. This is also important. Really.

One of the nurses, a gorgeous black woman who I've seen before, was particularly classy today. Her hair was perfect, her 'scrubs' were colorful and fun, and she wore 'diamonds' (OK, so they weren't diamonds, stay with me here) in her hair. She really looked glamorous/classy...and very busy.

So while I was getting 'unhooked' from the IV, and she was passing close by, I beckoned to her with the index finger 'come here' gesture. Remember: I physically could not do a 'whole hand' gesture or an arm wave, and I didn't want to shout all over the room. She looked at me and said "don't do that. I don't appreciate that. It's demeaning and disrespectful."

She said that again...I didn't understand the problem. All I wanted to do was compliment her on her appearance, something she is well aware that I do; she's seen me do it many times. I COULD NOT get her to come closer to my chair...she was so insulted, so I just said it. "All I wanted to do was tell you that I thought you were pretty today."

Her boss (who was unhooking me at the time) wasn't thrilled with her, but her reaction made me cry. I've been unhappy and worried about it all day, to be honest. I certainly didn't INTEND any disrespect; quite the opposite. I don't care too hoots what color her skin is. She was just classy and I wanted to say so. So...who was the racist here, and what do I do about it?

Because I WILL have to work with her, depend on it, and she thinks, quite obviously, that I'm trash.

I do not think the issue was racism but one of hyper sensitivity from the nurse searching for something considered sexist regardless of your condition.

 

[SoyLeche]

I do not think the issue was racism but one of hyper sensitivity from the nurse searching for something considered sexist regardless of your condition.

I don’t see where sexism comes into play either.

 

[Shad]

I don’t see where sexism comes into play either.

Sexism is the only reason I could think of in which crooking your finger is seen negatively in this context. There is no authority issue involved here which is another context that has a reason to object to the gesture. To be offended there has to be a rational or the nurse is insane.

 

[Watchmen]

I thought about all day. Wasn't her reaction to me "perceived racisim?" I am very obviously 'white,' complete with very pale complexion, blue eyes and about as 'Caucasian' as it is possible to be. On the other hand, she has skin the color of ebony wood. We could stand for piano keys. Her assumption that my gesture was 'demeaning' seemed pretty obvious to me, now.

And yet it's a gesture that I have used only with people I like; my kids, my friends, my intimates...(shrug) wasn't her reaction to me 'perceived racism" on her part? Her perception of me was that I was being racist?

Why do you tie her assumption that your gesture was demeaning to race? If you gestured to me with one finger and I misunderstood it as demeaning, it wouldn’t have anything to do with race as I am probably as “ivory” as you are. So if this nurse and I had the same reaction, why is hers based on race while mine is based on a misunderstanding? I’m trying to be delicate here, but it sounds like you may be projecting your own race-based thought on her.

 

[SoyLeche]

Sexism is the only reason I could think of in which crooking your finger is seen negatively in this context. There is no authority issue involved here which is another context that has a reason to object to the gesture. To be offended there has to be a rational or the nurse is insane.

So, you can only see a woman being offended by that?