People are being manipulated into hating Muslims

[ThePainefulTruth]

Here's a handful: Albania, Azerbaijan, Indonesia, Northern Cyprus.

Just checking Indonesia, as with most mixed countries, the integration is moving towards full Sharia. In one region, Aceh, Sharia was extended to non-Muslims in 2014. Other regions have been gradually extending their influence as well. Hardly a good example of Muslims working against the establishment of Sharia.

I see several countries with mixed systems or some with secular systems, but I can't find evidence of any effort openly working against it.

To God, not to Sharee'ah.

And how do you submit to God exactly, according to Islam?

No.

The Qur'aan is the Word of Allaah, not the word of Muhammad (pbuh).

That doesn't answer the question. You say you deny the goal of establishing Sharia, but then you can't deny Koan 9:29 since that's the work of God/Allah and claim that:

All of the Qur'aan is authentic.

Allows what when dealing with infidels?

Lying and other forms of deception including not adhering to Islam for the cause.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Muslim_movements#North_America

That's definitely encouraging, and the individuals listed definitely deserve praise for their courage, but I see no real progress in influence. Mohamed Ali is listed first, but he always seemed more pugnacious about Islam rather than an advocate for progress.

It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to say that a religion 'desires' something. (Some of) the followers of a religion, maybe. But not a religion.

Enlightenment and dogma both apply. And it isn't what religion desires, it's what the religion claims that God desires.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

the integration is moving towards full Sharia

I don't see this happening. The majority of people do not vote for parties which espouse the establishment of Sharee'ah.

In one region, Aceh, Sharia was extended to non-Muslims in 2014.

This is one region, not representative of Indonesia as a whole.

Wrt:

Hardly a good example of Muslims working against the establishment of Sharia.

and:

I see several countries with mixed systems or some with secular systems, but I can't find evidence of any effort openly working against it.

I wasn't pointing out people working against Sharee'ah.

You earlier said:

Sharia is THE mandate that ALL Muslims are committed to accomplish, This is what ALL Muslims have surrendered themselves to bring about"

To which I said:

There are plenty of us who are not keen on Sharee'ah.

and:

One doesn't have to look too far to find Muslim-majority countries where the people don't seem to be in any great rush to bring Sharee'ah back.

I was merely saying that there are plenty of us who are not keen on Sharee'ah. Not really the same thing as actively and openly working against it.

And how do you submit to God exactly, according to Islam?

By submitting to what God desires us to do (which is NOT to establish Sharee'ah).

That doesn't answer the question. You say you deny the goal of establishing Sharia, but then you can't deny Koan 9:29 since that's the work of God/Allah

Not everything in the Qur'aan is meant for all time and every place. This verse is an example of one meant for the time of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), not for all time.

Lying and other forms of deception including not adhering to Islam for the cause.

Where do you get this from? Are you saying that every Muslim who doesn't appear to be working for the establishment of Sharee'ah or even appears to be actively working against it is in reality working for the establishment of Sharee'ah?

That's definitely encouraging, and the individuals listed definitely deserve praise for their courage, but I see no real progress in influence.

That wasn't what you asked for. Some things take time.

Enlightenment and dogma both apply. And it isn't what religion desires, it's what the religion claims that God desires.

Right, but that's rather different from what you said previously. Moreover, this still assumes that Islaam or Christianity is one monolithic thing, when in reality there are multiple different versions of Islaam and Christianity.

 

[icehorse]

Not everything in the Qur'aan is meant for all time and every place. This verse is an example of one meant for the time of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), not for all time.

I appreciate the tone of this discussion! Let me ask you a question about this statement though: How do you know which verse is meant for which situation? It strikes me that people don't get their moral compasses from religion, they get them elsewhere and use them to do things like know which verse to use when...

 

[The_Fisher_King]

I appreciate the tone of this discussion! Let me ask you a question about this statement though: How do you know which verse is meant for which situation? It strikes me that people don't get their moral compasses from religion, they get them elsewhere and use them to do things like know which verse to use when...

I ask God for guidance, and I use my (God-given) brain.

 

[icehorse]

I ask God for guidance, and I use my (God-given) brain.

That's a truly wonderful, honest, and shockingly rare response. thank you!

 

[The_Fisher_King]

That's a truly wonderful, honest, and shockingly rare response. thank you!

You're most welcome!

 

[blue taylor]

I ask God for guidance, and I use my (God-given) brain.

God given brain? All living things have a brain of some sort. But as you know God did not hand them out equally.