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Patrilineal Family Names

Penumbra

Veteran Member
Premium Member
What are your thoughts on most of the world's naming systems?

In the majority of places around the world, women are typically expected to replace their own family/last name with their husband's family/last name upon marriage. Even where women typically keep their own names, the children of the couple are even more likely to be expected to adopt the father's family/last name. In cultures where the child is given both the father and mother's family/last names, the father's name is dominant, so when the kid eventually gets married to someone else's kid, the names that came from their father's side are the names that are passed on.

In the United States, more than three quarters of women do change their name to the husband's name upon marriage, and an even greater percentage have the children take the husband's family name. Usually, the mother's family name is only given to the child if her name is of major political importance compared to the man's and could be used for political leverage (like royalty, literal or cultural), or if the father is unknown.

I believe language is important for how people think about themselves and others. Much of this naming system has been enforced by law until recent decades, and in some places still is, though in most developed places is not. It's a remnant of the times when marriage contracts were essentially a property transfer from the father of the woman to her new husband. So Mr. John Smith marries Ms. Jane Jones, and they become "Mr. and Mrs. Smith", or even addressed as "Mr. and Mrs. John Smith", absorbing her written identity into his. Even the title of "Mr." doesn't change upon marriage, but "Miss" and "Mrs." are meant to openly indicate the woman's marriage state unless the ambiguous "Ms." is specifically used (which was a later invention to correct this imbalance).

Even in an increasingly egalitarian society, a guy would typically respond in an astounded manner if it is suggested that maybe he should change his name to her name upon marriage, or the child of the two should take the mother's name. I think this dramatically imbalanced expectation is a major piece of extant sexism in today's cultures: one is considered expected, the other is considered ridiculous, but why?

-Would you ever change your name based on marriage?

-What do you think is an ideal way to determine a child's family name? Should the child be named after the mother's family name, father's family name, both (and if so, which one passes on to his or her kid?), or should there be no cultural expectation and the couple should work it out? How would you work it out?
 

Rakhel

Well-Known Member
I would say it's born more out of tradition than anything.
My mother took my father's last name when she married him the first time. When she divorced him she went back to her maiden name and kept it when he convinced her to marry him again.
She would get ****** when our teachers(my brother's and mine) would call her Mrs. (my father's last name) and out right correct them in a not too pleasant way.

I do the same thing with my older two who were born before I got married. They carry my maiden name(my father's last name). It wasn't so bad walking in to the teacher and being address Ms. So and so. But when I got married, I just....well, his last name is a hell of a lot easier to pronounce over the phone than mine is/was. I think that was the only reason other than tradition that had me changing my last name.

Why we continued with my husband's, now my, last name, I guess that too was born more out a tradition add with a practical reason.
Though I at least have fun with my name. Instead of my initials being M.K. They are M.F.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
Post got eaten by forum maintenance.

Yes I would.change my name.

Ideally newly weds would choose a new last name or keep both. The former could symbolize the new family's beginning, and the latter would make genealogy easier. And while the exponential increase in keeping all last names would make knowing one's own full name extremely difficult, such info could be stored on a flash drive.

Foregoing these options the newlyweds should choose whichever name they like best.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
I agree in principle with the OP, but tradition is a really tough nut to crack. I once thought the fairest thing would be for everyone to keep their own name, then name sons after the father and daughters after the mother.

But then when I got married I changed my name. I did it because I feel more comfortable with my husband's family than my father's. Also, it sounds cooler and is a lot less generic. It's also coincidentally the name of a town that's ten minutes away, which creates the subtle impression we're minor aristocrats. It also has major SEO advantages. My former name was identical to that of another musician who is appalling. Also a Stampede wrestler. Now half the first page of google links all reference me, unambiguously. :D
 

Horrorble

Well-Known Member
I have my mothers fathers name, I like it best because it shows off non-white heritage.
If I got married I wouldn't change it, my partners family did not raise me and their surname and lineage and heritage is not my own and never will be.

I don't want children. I guess it is one of the reasons why I don't want children, I would probably want them to have my surname name because I'm the one that is bringing them in to the world, however I don't know what my partner would think of that.
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
I changed my last name to my husband's out of tradition. It's rubbed me the wrong way (for the reasons listed here, too), but he and I couldn't think of an easier way to establish lineage.

My husband's aunt had once told me historically in our area the woman would adopt her husband's last name but change her maiden name to be her middle name. I think that's a step up, and less confusing than hyphenating names, but for someone like me who has a maiden name and has been married twice, I'd have five names in total....and that just feels so cumbersome.

I find it interesting that when I ask some people - male and female - what they think of a man who changes his name to his wife's, sadly a bulk of them think that he would be "less of a man." I'd ask why, and they would say that it's not the way things are done (which I'm still trying to find a connection as to why breaking tradition would lessen the personhood of a man).
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
I (eventually LOL) changed my last name to my husbands but changed my middle name to my maiden. I think if you are going to have children like has been mentioned you really have to pick one for the last name to keep track down the line.So since we were obviously going to name the children with his last name I wanted my last name to match too.

My great grandmother had six or seven "last names" .I honestly think thats getting a little too complicated. Oh but in rememberance of her I did name one of my sons middle names after her first name just different spelling.Graham.
 
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Penumbra

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Personally, my last name is never going to change.

I don't particularly plan on children but if I had a child, I'd probably want the child to have my last name or a combination of both our last names like some cultures do. I could maybe do the idea where a daughter is named after the mother and the son is named after the father; I've thought of that before but it sounds a little bit messy.

My middle name is my mother's last name.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
The trouble is that my original name was my father's father's father's (etc.) name anyway, so whichever way I went I was still going to have a patrilineal surname. I did consider changing to my mother's maiden name to give it at least an extra generation of continuity, but we're not having kids so it would just be a fart in a hurricane. My brother actually did do that at one point, but then he changed it back after my father's family kicked up a fuss.

I like the Scandinavian thing of having "dottir" or "son" appended to the parent's first names to make up the kids last names.
 

Penumbra

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The trouble is that my original name was my father's father's father's (etc.) name anyway, so whichever way I went I was still going to have a patrilineal surname.
For me, it's not about the name itself (can't undo the past), it's about what I would want to do in the present. I would not want to alter my name to have it replaced by a man's family name, nor would I particularly want the children to take the man's family name rather than mine. There's a lot of symbolism in those things which I wouldn't want to do.

It's also an interesting sociological question, especially for some people that may think feminism isn't needed anymore in developed countries. It's expected as a default for women to change their name, and even more so for the kids to take the father's name, but to propose a reversed scenario where the man takes the womans name or at least agrees to raise the kids with the woman's name, would typically result in someone looking at you like you're absolutely looney, even though that would be just a reversed version of the same thing.

(As a note, I'm not against men and women doing what they agree to do. If a woman wants to change her name, that's cool. I'm just looking at this as a highly imbalanced social thing, a clear type of social sexism on a broad cultural level, and my personal view is that it's preferable to kind of work against it.)
 
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I think in an ideal society, people wouldn't have family names since all of humanity would be a family. I don't think that a woman should have to change her name to her husband's, or that the children should have to take the father's name. I think that breaking down these patriarchal misconceptions will eventually become necessary in the future.

My ideal naming system would be where people could chose their own last names, say when they turn 15 or 16 or something.
 

Aquitaine

Well-Known Member
I think in an ideal society, people wouldn't have family names since all of humanity would be a family. I don't think that a woman should have to change her name to her husband's, or that the children should have to take the father's name. I think that breaking down these patriarchal misconceptions will eventually become necessary in the future.

My ideal naming system would be where people could chose their own last names, say when they turn 15 or 16 or something.

LOL - letting 15-16 year olds decide their own surnames? I can see some troubles arising with that!

"Ben, what surname would you like for yourself?"

"Dover!" :biglaugh:
 
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