Pastor Latzel and the limits of freedom of speech

[mikkel_the_dane]

This is surely relevant. But Pastor Latzel is not a state authority. He is a priest and said those things in the context of a religious class.

Yet, that wouldn't do it in Denmark in some cases. Religion is not a "get free out of jail" card.

 

[ChristineM]

I don't believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster's threats.
So I would not care less about the Flying Spaghetti Monster's threats

It is not a case of the object, it is a case of the ****ing idiot issuing the threats. To make such a threat implies they wish you harm, the next stage is violence

Sure i laugh at the threat but the person issuing the threat is quite obviously not a nice person who you need be cautious of.

Tell me, have your children ever been threatened with tje flying spaghetti monster because you don't fall down and worship it the way the person issuing the threats does?

I guess no so must be another one of your strawmen

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

That's exactly the point. Thank you for bringing it up. Since there is the separation between church and State, in Germany, a Pastor is supposed to respond before his own Church only, and not before the State given that we are dealing with a religious Unterricht. Seminar.

Well, read German law. So invade Germany and force them to follow your law. I thought you were a nationalist?

 

[ChristineM]

That's exactly the point. Thank you for bringing it up. Since there is the separation between church and State, in Germany, a Pastor is supposed to respond before his own Church only, and not before the State given that we are dealing with a religious Unterricht. Seminar.

He is also required to abide by the law of the land he chooses to preach in

 

[Estro Felino]

It is not a case of the object, it is a case of the ****ing idiot issuing the threats. To make such a threat implies they wish you harm, the next stage is violence

Sure i laugh at the threat but the person issuing the threat is quite obviously not a nice person who you need be cautious of.

Tell me, have your children ever been threatened with tje flying spaghetti monster because you don't fall down and worship it the way the person issuing the threats does?

I guess no so must be another one of your strawmen

According to this reasoning, the Bible should be banned for hate speech.
It speaks of Hell.

 

[Stevicus]

Because if you follow social science that can lead to actual psychological harm and even suicide in people.

So does capitalism, but nobody ever does anything about that.

 

[Estro Felino]

Well, read German law. So invade Germany and force them to follow your law. I thought you were a nationalist?

I started this thread to debate about this current event.
I am open to debate.

 

[Estro Felino]

So does capitalism, but nobody ever does anything about that.

In that case, because the banking and financial elites are above the law. Like Louis XV

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

According to this reasoning, the Bible should be banned for hate speech.
It speaks of Hell.

No, it is how you deliver it. You can do it differently and still be a Christian.

 

[Heyo]

That's exactly the point. Thank you for bringing it up. Since there is the separation between church and State, in Germany, a Pastor is supposed to respond before his own Church only, and not before the State given that we are dealing with a religious Unterricht. Seminar.

(Sadly) we don't have separation of church and state in our laws like the US has(*). We have freedom of religion but one of the two big parties calls itself Christian. We have religious education in our schools and you can study religion at university. The teachers and professors are paid by the state.

* In praxis our state and churches are more separate than in the US, though not de jure.

 

[Estro Felino]

I have read the actual speech.
The context is exclusively religious. Otherworldly context.
diese Verbrecher... he does not mean "criminals" he means "trespassers, transgressors" because the context is that of those who break God's law.

@Heyo
Correct me if I am wrong

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I started this thread to debate about this current event.
I am open to debate.

Freedom can't be absolute, because even you accepts limitations.

Start by understanding that in effect your life in a group consists of limited duties and rights. If you declare one absolute you will in up in a dictatorship of sorts.
Here is an example of a limited duty.
In Denmark we have a limited draft - male, 18-50 able of body and mind for which you can choose to be a soldier, do civil service or go to jail. See limited and within reason.

 

[Estro Felino]

Freedom can't be absolute, because even you accepts limitations.

Start by understanding that in effect your life in a group consists of limited duties and rights. If you declare one absolute you will in up in a dictatorship of sorts.
Here is an example of a limited duty.
In Denmark we have a limited draft - male, 18-50 able of body and mind for which you can choose to be a soldier, do civil service or go to jail. See limited and within reason.

I thought it was a given that I profoundly respect the German Law, the German judiciary and the German rulings.
This is just my personal perspective.

 

[Stevicus]

Well, read German law. So invade Germany and force them to follow your law.

Well, sure, we Americans did that (with a wee bit of help from the Russians and Brits). We also invaded Italy, too. But did our influence take any hold? Did the Germans stop being Nazis only because the Allies told them to? Or was it their own idea?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I have read the actual speech.
The context is exclusively religious. Otherworldly context.
diese Verbrecher... he does not mean "criminals" he means "trespassers, transgressors" because the context is that of those who break God's law.

@Heyo
Correct me if I am wrong

Yes, that is the problem. Studies have shown that this can lead to higher rates of suicides in people living with that as a part of their everyday life. Now of course for Germany you got the the man with the mustache.

 

[ChristineM]

According to this reasoning, the Bible should be banned for hate speech.
It speaks of Hell.

Sheesh. I am talking the person making the threat, not the threat itself, why is that so hard for you to understand?

 

[Estro Felino]

This is the video

Translation of the incriminated sentences
This devilish homo-lobby is becoming more and more strong and massive, and is imposing itself.
These transgressors are anywhere on gay pride day, they expose themselves, the rainbow flag has been displayed on our city all. It deals with wilfully anti-christian and anti-Bible things.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Well, sure, we Americans did that (with a wee bit of help from the Russians and Brits). We also invaded Italy, too. But did our influence take any hold? Did the Germans stop being Nazis only because the Allies told them to? Or was it their own idea?

As far as I can tell that is their own idea of course with the help of being beaten to absolute surrender.

 

[Stevicus]

(Sadly) we don't have separation of church and state in our laws like the US has(*). We have freedom of religion but one of the two big parties calls itself Christian. We have religious education in our schools and you can study religion at university. The teachers and professors are paid by the state.

* In praxis our state and churches are more separate than in the US, though not de jure.

Any bigtime televangelists?

 

[Estro Felino]

Yes, that is the problem. Studies have shown that this can lead to higher rates of suicides in people living with that as a part of their everyday life. Now of course for Germany you got the the man with the mustache.

It is a very delicate situation. I really empathize with those people. That's the reason why so many LGBTs lose the faith, quit the Church.
And they are so right, I mean...they should not listen to religions, they should follow their own hearts.
But...this thread is about political implications of freedom of speech.
I think a state cannot prevent a priest from expressing their own opinion.