Parting of the Red Sea.....

[dawny0826]

And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, that he shall follow after them; and I will be honoured upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host; that the Egyptians may know that I am the LORD. And they did so.



And it was told the king of Egypt that the people fled: and the heart of Pharaoh and of his servants was turned against the people, and they said, Why have we done this, that we have let Israel go from serving us?

And he made ready his chariot, and took his people with him:

And he took six hundred chosen chariots, and all the chariots of Egypt, and captains over every one of them.
And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh king of Egypt, and he pursued after the children of Israel: and the children of Israel went out with an high hand.

​

The whole reason Pharaoh chased the Israelites was that God goaded him into it, and the whole reason God did so was to give himself an excuse to kill the Egyptians and "get [him] honour upon Pharaoh."


Why would anybody want to worship such a vicious god? What would you think of a human being who acted like that?

God certainly isn't human. And for any act which may seem vicious...the greater purpose is for the GOOD of HIS people.

Remember that Pharoah was given opportunity after opportunity to release the Hebrews and refused due to pride. He was warned repeatedly.

God demands obedience and I feel He's more than deserving.

Pharoah was the prick.

 

[jeffrey]

God KEPT hardening his heart. It would be like God turning your heart against him then killing you for doing it. I don't see God doing that. I see a God of love. Not a God of hate.

 

[dawny0826]

God KEPT hardening his heart. It would be like God turning your heart against him then killing you for doing it. I don't see God doing that. I see a God of love. Not a God of hate.

Even if that WERE the case. Look at what God did FOR his people.

The Eqyptians did not believe in the Hebrew God. The Egyptians held God's people in bondage. By hardening Pharoah's heart (I still believe Pharoah had a choice, but that's just my opinion) God's people were released...God's people were taken out of bondage.

And God kept His promises to His people. So, tell me how this makes Him a God of Hate. Pharoah did not worship GOD. God was NOT Pharoah's God.

 

[Smoke]

Remember that Pharoah was given opportunity after opportunity to release the Hebrews and refused due to pride. He was warned repeatedly.

Not due to pride, but because God hardened his heart.

Exodus 7.2-4a: You shall speak all that I command you, and your brother Aaron shall tell Pharaoh to let the people of Israel go out of his land. But I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and though I multiply my signs and wonders in the land of Egypt, Pharaoh will not listen to you.

Exodus 9.12: But the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he did not listen to them, as the LORD had spoken to Moses.

Exodus 9.13-17: Then the LORD said to Moses, "Rise up early in the morning and present yourself before Pharaoh and say to him, 'Thus says the LORD, the God of the Hebrews, "Let my people go, that they may serve me. For this time I will send all my plagues on you yourself, and on your servants and your people, so that you may know that there is none like me in all the earth. For by now I could have put out my hand and struck you and your people with pestilence, and you would have been cut off from the earth. But for this purpose I have raised you up, to show you my power, so that my name may be proclaimed in all the earth.

Exodus 10.1-2: Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go in to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the heart of his servants, that I may show these signs of mine among them, and that you may tell in the hearing of your son and of your grandson how I have dealt harshly with the Egyptians and what signs I have done among them, that you may know that I am the LORD."

Exodus 10.16-20: Then Pharaoh hastily called Moses and Aaron and said, "I have sinned against the LORD your God, and against you. Now therefore, forgive my sin, please, only this once, and plead with the LORD your God only to remove this death from me." So he went out from Pharaoh and pleaded with the LORD. And the LORD turned the wind into a very strong west wind, which lifted the locusts and drove them into the Red Sea. Not a single locust was left in all the country of Egypt. But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he did not let the people of Israel go.

Exodus 10.27: But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let them go.

Exodus 11.10: Moses and Aaron did all these wonders before Pharaoh, and the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he did not let the people of Israel go out of his land.

 

[dawny0826]

Not due to pride, but because God hardened his heart.

Exodus 7.2-4a: You shall speak all that I command you, and your brother Aaron shall tell Pharaoh to let the people of Israel go out of his land. But I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and though I multiply my signs and wonders in the land of Egypt, Pharaoh will not listen to you.

Exodus 9.12: But the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he did not listen to them, as the LORD had spoken to Moses.

Exodus 9.13-17: Then the LORD said to Moses, "Rise up early in the morning and present yourself before Pharaoh and say to him, 'Thus says the LORD, the God of the Hebrews, "Let my people go, that they may serve me. For this time I will send all my plagues on you yourself, and on your servants and your people, so that you may know that there is none like me in all the earth. For by now I could have put out my hand and struck you and your people with pestilence, and you would have been cut off from the earth. But for this purpose I have raised you up, to show you my power, so that my name may be proclaimed in all the earth.

Exodus 10.1-2: Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go in to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the heart of his servants, that I may show these signs of mine among them, and that you may tell in the hearing of your son and of your grandson how I have dealt harshly with the Egyptians and what signs I have done among them, that you may know that I am the LORD."

Exodus 10.16-20: Then Pharaoh hastily called Moses and Aaron and said, "I have sinned against the LORD your God, and against you. Now therefore, forgive my sin, please, only this once, and plead with the LORD your God only to remove this death from me." So he went out from Pharaoh and pleaded with the LORD. And the LORD turned the wind into a very strong west wind, which lifted the locusts and drove them into the Red Sea. Not a single locust was left in all the country of Egypt. But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he did not let the people of Israel go.

Exodus 10.27: But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let them go.

Exodus 11.10: Moses and Aaron did all these wonders before Pharaoh, and the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he did not let the people of Israel go out of his land.

Even so, it doesn't change the fact that God did what he did for the good of His people. He fulfilled His promises to His people.

 

[Smoke]

Even so, it doesn't change the fact that God did what he did for the good of His people. He fulfilled His promises to His people.

That's not what God says in the scripture; he says he did it to glorify himself, and so that the Israelites would be able to boast to their descendants about how harshly he treated the Egyptians. He could have freed the Israelites without all that hoo-rah, but he chose not to. I can't believe in a deity like that. That's not the divine mind, it's the mind of the schoolyard bully and the self-important middle manager: "I'll show them who's boss!"

 

[jeffrey]

His people.... Silly me for thinking all people on earth is God's people. IMO, this is the stuff that creates the 'I'm better then you, I'm God's chosen, your not' Attitude. It creates bigotry. By saying that, Egyptians are not God's people. I disagree. God created up ALL equally.

 

[dawny0826]

That's not what God says in the scripture; he says he did it to glorify himself, and so that the Israelites would be able to boast to their descendants about how harshly he treated the Egyptians. He could have freed the Israelites without all that hoo-rah, but he chose not to. I can't believe in a deity like that. That's not the divine mind, it's the mind of the schoolyard bully and the self-important middle manager: "I'll show them who's boss!"

That's fine. You're totally entitled to your beliefs.

I for one, am enamored with God and can't feel as you do.

He has shown nothing but love and kindness to me. I have seen nothing but Grace and Mercy in Him. And I see when reading the Bible that he has never failed to fulfill his promises to those that decide to follow Him. He is the very definition of love. He came to earth and hung in agony for me.

Is he Jealous? Yes. But rightfully so.

 

[dawny0826]

His people.... Silly me for thinking all people on earth is God's people. IMO, this is the stuff that creates the 'I'm better then you, I'm God's chosen, your not' Attitude. It creates bigotry. By saying that, Egyptians are not God's people. I disagree. God created up ALL equally.

I'm simply very FIRM in my belief of God...my LOVE and adoration for my God, my Christ. And I won't budge. There is nothing more important to me in my life than my God.

And according to HIS WORD, which I DO accept to be HIS infallible WORD...we each have the opportunity to be ONE of HIS chosen if we abandon OUR will for our lives and choose to accept His will for our lives. He offers us life with Him through Christ.

Think of me what you will. Label me what you want. It doesn't matter to me.

I know who my God is. And my God is the VERY definition of Love. And he has given each and every one of us a choice. We can follow Him or not. We choose.

You don't have to accept this. I'm not asking you to. But as long as I have breath in my body...I will stand firmly on what I believe to be true.

 

[Smoke]

That's fine. You're totally entitled to your beliefs.

But it seems that neither my beliefs nor yours conform to the Bible's depiction of God.

 

[dawny0826]

But it seems that neither my beliefs nor yours conform to the Bible's depiction of God.

In what ways do my beliefs of God fail to conform to the Bible's depiction of God?

My belief in God has been formed FROM my interpretation of His Word and from how the his Spirit has worked within me.

I'm curious though, what your thoughts are.

 

[Smoke]

In what ways do my beliefs of God fail to conform to the Bible's depiction of God?

For instance, you see him as loving and just, though in the passage we've been discussing he depicts himself as harsh and capricious.

 

[dawny0826]

For instance, you see him as loving and just, though in the passage we've been discussing he depicts himself as harsh and capricious.

That's ONE passage. I just can't overlook the GOOD that came out of that situation.

He claims to be jealous. I read in the Bible where even darkness trembles at his voice. I call that Mighty not "prickish". But you know...to each his/her own.

 

[jeffrey]

Dawny, I admire you for your beliefs. I too have a strong sense of who God is. You know God's love, as do I. But I don't believe in man's book of the OT. I don't take them literally. I believe in Christ. I believe in HIS teachings. But I don't see God as described by man in the OT.

 

[dawny0826]

Dawny, I admire you for your beliefs. I too have a strong sense of who God is. You know God's love, as do I. But I don't believe in man's book of the OT. I don't take them literally. I believe in Christ. I believe in HIS teachings. But I don't see God as described by man in the OT.

And that's totally cool, Jeffrey. I understand where you're coming from. It all boils down to individual interpretation. We're entitled to our own interpretations.

 

[jeffrey]

And that's totally cool, Jeffrey. I understand where you're coming from. It all boils down to individual interpretation. We're entitled to our own interpretations.

And I don't think our different interpretations matter in the big picture. It's what's in your heart. How you show the love Christ has put into your heart. Love and tolerance for all. God bless you.

 

[Ody]

His people.... Silly me for thinking all people on earth is God's people. IMO, this is the stuff that creates the 'I'm better then you, I'm God's chosen, your not' Attitude. It creates bigotry. By saying that, Egyptians are not God's people. I disagree. God created up ALL equally.

The children of Israel do not wear it as a medal of pride that we where chosen by G-d, it is a curse we must obey up to 600 mitzvot! You non jews are lucky, you get an easier ride
We are a missionary race of sorts, we are to be a beacon of just and morals in the world, it isn't that we are better than anyone else at all! We are just ones with more responsibilities.. nothing more

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The children of Israel do not wear it as a medal of pride that we where chosen by G-d, it is a curse we must obey up to 600 mitzvot!

As in 613.

 

[Buttercup]

I've always thought it interesting that people want to view God as a "Love" only type of benefactor. Certainly that is His greatest attribute but we must also consider that he holds more characteristics than just one. He is a jealous God as well. And it's obvious from the OT that he can get angry.

Man was made in the image of God. I have no problem with the notion of God being more than just love.

 

[jewscout]

His people.... Silly me for thinking all people on earth is God's people. IMO, this is the stuff that creates the 'I'm better then you, I'm God's chosen, your not' Attitude. It creates bigotry. By saying that, Egyptians are not God's people. I disagree. God created up ALL equally.

i don't know that many jews who actually think that way. I find more non-jews THINK that jews think this way.