"Pagans" Only: Mythology vs. Fiction

[Gentoo]

I know we pagans here are few in number, but I still want to pose this question to those that are here

In relation to where we get our sources to back our beliefs, what (if any) is the difference between mythology and fiction?

I know MoonWater and Azakel (I hope they don't mind me singling them out for an example) list Jedi/Sith in their religion field, and the people here more or less take it for what it's worth: a philosophy that works for them and can be compared to our Taoism (I think it can be anyway

).

I've thought about this a lot, and the only answers I can come up with is time/how old the material is and fiction having a known author. But, we have "authors" for The Iliad, The Odyssey, The Aeneid and these works are still considered 'valid' sources.

So does it really matter where our sources come from if it helps us feel closer to nature/the gods/ourselves?

What if someone wanted to follow the system laid out in the Silmarillion (LotR's)? Would that seem less credible, and why? (Especially in comparison to people using the system in a series of movies..)

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I think mythology and fiction arise from the same source: human experience.

Even something created purely for entertainment is going to flow from and affect the subconscious. A large amount of our fiction has similar elements found in traditional "hero mythology." (Insert Carl Jung quote here.)

I think that if someone wants to take a fictional character such as Tolkien's Ilúvatar from The Silmarillian, and consider that rendition as their own symbol for the Divine, than that's surely fine. What would be the difference between that and adopting the Gnostic's Unknown God?

Fiction is just another way of describing and labelling the inner world's relationship to reality.

 

[Gentoo]

I think that if someone wants to take a fictional character such as Tolkien's Ilúvatar from The Silmarillian, and consider that rendition as their own symbol for the Divine, than that's surely fine. What would be the difference between that and adopting the Gnostic's Unknown God?

I suppose the argument could be made that the Silmarillion was written for the entertainment value... and that would call the story's intent into play... But only if intent is meaningful to the person listening/reading it.

That could be related to "separating the artist from the art" thing...

 

[twinmama]

Well. Tolkien based lot of his stories to Finnish native beliefs. He was fascinated by finnish native religion so much that he even learned finnish language so he could read about our faith in native tongue. He also based one of the elf languages to finnish. As a Finn it is really cool to hear/read it.

There is an article in National Geographic about this. And of course OneRingNet and other sites have info too.

Here is the link to NG article;

<i>Lord of the Rings</i> Inspired by an Ancient Epic

There is one mistake in article though. They talk about Rune singer Huovinen being the last one. That is far from truth. It is just that healers, shamans and other "magical"(don't really like that word but...)people do not want to be in public. They take their faith far too seriously.

IMO, all religious texts are "myths", influenced by surrounding culture - people trying to explain world best they can.
If I look at my own religious texts, I surely do not believe that world was created by Ilmatar swimming hundreds of years in icean and creating sun and moon from bird's egg. But on the other hand I have experienced "supernatural" things through my religion. And I don't mean spiritual experiencies but real stuff, like healer stopping blood from wounded leg just using words.

In the end I think it is much more important how one acts ethically and how one treats fellow human being than what creation story you believe.

Higher powers are just too big for one religion.

 

[Gentoo]

Well. Tolkien based lot of his stories to Finnish native beliefs. He was fascinated by finnish native religion so much that he even learned finnish language so he could read about our faith in native tongue. He also based one of the elf languages to finnish. As a Finn it is really cool to hear/read it.

There is an article in National Geographic about this. And of course OneRingNet and other sites have info too.

Here is the link to NG article;

<i>Lord of the Rings</i> Inspired by an Ancient Epic

There is one mistake in article though. They talk about Rune singer Huovinen being the last one. That is far from truth. It is just that healers, shamans and other "magical"(don't really like that word but...)people do not want to be in public. They take their faith far too seriously.

IMO, all religious texts are "myths", influenced by surrounding culture - people trying to explain world best they can.
If I look at my own religious texts, I surely do not believe that world was created by Ilmatar swimming hundreds of years in icean and creating sun and moon from bird's egg. But on the other hand I have experienced "supernatural" things through my religion. And I don't mean spiritual experiencies but real stuff, like healer stopping blood from wounded leg just using words.

In the end I think it is much more important how one acts ethically and how one treats fellow human being than what creation story you believe.

Higher powers are just too big for one religion.

Cool stuff!

Just for clarity's sake, would you think that someone following a series of fiction books like that to be more delusional (for lack of a better word) than the any other religious person believing in a book/story?

 

[Storm]

Do the quote marks in the thread title mean I can participate?

 

[Gentoo]

Do the quote marks in the thread title mean I can participate?

Please! I'm thinking of moving my thread for some more input

 

[Storm]

Well, I consider myth to be the pinnacle of storytelling, speaking truths that runtoo deep for mere fact to express.

Not having a mythology of my own, I have to borrow from others, and I find my greatest inspiration comes from modern myth. A little Tolkein, yes, but I draw most heavily on Babylon 5 and the works of Jacqueline Carey.

It's all about where you find meaning.

 

[Zephyr]

Myths are there to impart ideas. Making them literal just makes it that much more fun. I mean, how could the universe as we know it have started without a giant space cow?

 

[Gentoo]

Myths are there to impart ideas. Making them literal just makes it that much more fun. I mean, how could the universe as we know it have started without a giant space cow?

Truly, a more important question has never been asked

 

[Zephyr]

Tim Kreider put it best (as usual).

Edit: Allfather snype.

 

[Gentoo]

I must say, I'm pleasantly surprised... I thought people would take a lot of issue with bringing modern fiction headfirst into spirituality. Especially you Zephyr, you always struck me as a more literal tradition driven person... certainly not a bad thing

 

[Zephyr]

I must say, I'm pleasantly surprised... I thought people would take a lot of issue with bringing modern fiction headfirst into spirituality. Especially you Zephyr, you always struck me as a more literal tradition driven person... certainly not a bad thing

Oh I might as well be a literalist. I just have a sense of rationality. Sure I choose to ignore it most of the time, but I like to have my fun.

Seriouspost though, the Eddas and sagas are relevant enough that they might as well be literal accounts. I do literally believe in the gods and I see the myths as the ancients trying to comprehend their actions. Maybe the nine worlds aren't exactly physical places to go chill in, but that doesn't make them any less real.

I think taking modern fiction to the same level as the traditional mythologies is really odd, and not something I'd do, but who am I to do anything about it if it works for somebody else?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I mean, how could the universe as we know it have started without a giant space cow?

We certainly wouldn't have the Milky Way.

 

[Gentoo]

...I think taking modern fiction to the same level as the traditional mythologies is really odd...

Just to play devil's advocate, why do you find it odd...?

 

[Zephyr]

Just to play devil's advocate, why do you find it odd...?

No idea. Gut instinct.

 

[twinmama]

Cool stuff!

Just for clarity's sake, would you think that someone following a series of fiction books like that to be more delusional (for lack of a better word) than the any other religious person believing in a book/story?

Nope. Like I said it is all about how you treat fellow human being.
Besides - we have to remember that Bible stories,Hindu stories,Buddha's stories and Mohammed's stories all have lots of mythic elements - they were Tolkien of their time.

I'm not trying to be distrespectful but IMO religious texts of big faiths are soups - few historical happenings mixed up with (much older)stories and myths.
Joseph Campbell's book "The Hero With Thousand Faces" explains so well why human beings just repeat the same ideas over and over again and why there is actually very much common with Luke Skywalker and Jesus.

If we jump 2000 years in the future ... who knows how religious map of the world will look like?

 

[Shianah]

My general philosophy on religions is to each their own, if they aren't hurting anyone, and living by some sort of moral code, what do I care what they call their deity(ies). Or why care about where they get their ideas?

Many older religions get their beliefs from older texts, that are full of folklore, moral stories, creation myths, etc. What really makes them any different than the fiction of today? If you sit and read the Bible with no pre-programmed biases, its a great fiction, full of love and violence, and thought invoking epiphanies. It's got everything in it for a great movie. So what really makes it any different than Tolkein? If you read into it you can find the same.

 

[enchanted_one1975]

I worship the Gods and Goddesses from Ancient Egyptian Mythology. Ever since I started, I also started looking at Mythology the same way a Christian looks at the bible. I consider Ancient Egyptian Mythology to be my sacred writings. I look to them for guidance and instruction. I look at the bible the way its followers look at Mythology. I see the Bible as fiction and I see Mythology as non-fiction.

 

[Evee]

I think mythology and fiction arise from the same source: human experience.
Even something created purely for entertainment is going to flow from and affect the subconscious.
...
Fiction is just another way of describing and labelling the inner world's relationship to reality.

Hi, non-pagan here. Just butting in for a second to say that ^this^ (edited for length) blew my mind.
**Goes off to re-read The Silmarillion and have world-view crisis**