Overcoming offensive opinions

[Spiderman]

The white supremacist believes that people with black skin are less intelligent than people with white skin. For the sake of argument, let's assume he's right and then ask: So what?

Is intelligence a measure of human worth?

If so, in dealing with people individually, how does a white man with a 100 IQ become superior in human value to a black man with a 120 IQ?

Is a retarded white man a worthless human being?

The white supremacist's argument makes no sense even if he's right that people with white skin are, as a group, more intelligent than those with black skin. So, there must be another cause for his racist views.

I think we humans are infected with a need to feel superior to others and racism is just one of many behaviors that we employ to satisfy that need. I think racism, nationalism, religious intolerance and many other forms of bad behavior are caused by the arrogant need to prove ourselves superior to others.

I do daily battle with my arrogance. Racism hasn't been a problem for me but I have a collection of other flaws with the same origin.

It isn't that one ethnicity is better than the other.

I believe people whose ancestors were from Africa, can on average excel better than white people at certain things. I think Asians and Jews can on average out do white people in certain areas. People of European descent excell on average in certain areas.

It doesn't make anybody better than anyone , if one person is more likely to invent something or get a doctorate than another.

As I've said, John the Baptist is one of my favorite people, and he wore camels hair, lived in the wilderness unemployed, off locusts and wild honey.

If he was born in today's world, I highly doubt he would get a doctorate in college, or invent technology, or contributions to modern medicine, or score high on an IQ test. I don't think he was gifted in those areas.

But in my opinion, I consider him a better person than 99.9% of people.

Saint Francis of Assisi, is my confirmation name too, one of my favorite Saints. He was barefoot and wore a Beggars robe, and begged for his meals, not knowing where the next one would come from.

I would do anything to be like him, but I also do not think he was gifted in areas for inventing new things, or getting something like a doctorate in college, if he was born in today's society. That does not make him a lesser of a person.

 

[Spiderman]

PopeADope, you are like most of us in that you find it difficult to take criticism, fairly and open-mindedly weigh it, and then learn from it. Yes, I know that you often say that criticism of your views has changed them, and so on and so forth. But I don't observe that it actually does in at least some cases where you have said that it does.

Maybe it would help if you kept in mind that intellectually honest, fair-minded people tend to need other intellectually honest, fair-minded people to provide them with reality checks. We humans have so many and so powerful cognitive biases built in that we all have a strong tendency to drift off the tracks at times, to start harboring views and opinions that are nothing if not false. We all need reality checks.

Now the problem is finding relatively intellectually honest and fair minded people to provide those reality checks. They can be in short supply, and you certainly cannot trust everyone to guide you true. But you should find them -- find people you trust to guide you true, then honestly weigh and evaluate their advice.

Again, it does little good to say, "Thank you! You've radically changed my views on this!", if in fact your views haven't changed one bit.

Actually, My Views have changed as a result of coming to RF and changed radically and revolutionized.

I used to think abortion was pure Evil. I still believe that a baby in the womb is a human being, and that abortion is killing a human being.

But I now see that as a necessary evil, and the most compassionate decision, and often the most compassionate and merciful thing for the child, and especially the mother.

I used to believe that communist atheists, if they were in power, would want to do cruel, evil, inhumane things to Roman Catholics like myself, to mock and destroy the faith, to humiliate, imprison, and even kill the person and murder the soul.

As a result of listening to other views at RF, I no longer believe such things about secular leftists.

I used to speak highly of Roman Catholic dictators like Francisco Franco, and Augusto Pinochet, for radically defending the faith and morals I cherish, in the face of rising secularism and communism.

As a result of coming to RF, I have truly felt sick of myself for speaking highly of such figures, and feel it is very offensive to those who had to suffer under their regimes.

I used to think homosexuality was a disorder and Abomination. As a result of coming to RF, I don't see it as any more disordered than I am or a lot of heterosexuals are.

You see?

 

[74x12]

So, I have some very offensive opinions and views that have really offended a lot of people at this forum and in real life.

I'm ashamed of it, and rightfully so.

I don't want to be that way.

My question is, what do I do to purge myself of deep-seated views and convictions that I believe to be true, that are extremely offensive to people?

I have firm convictions in my heart that the belief is true.

But it is simply unacceptable to talk about such things.

How would you recommend I shake the conviction that such offensive beliefs are true?

I really appreciate any help you have to offer.

I simply don't want to believe these things, or think this way, but I feel like my ability to change it, is about as difficult as it would be for the average homosexual to choose to be heterosexual.

It isn't like they can change the fact that they are attracted to the same gender.

Likewise, it isn't like I can choose to not believe these deep-seated convictions of heart.

But I want to.

• Evaluate your beliefs and decide if they are fair.
• Reverse the situation. Put yourself in the other person's shoes. See if what you believe still seems fair.
• Taking into account the other person's history and in this case the history of their race/people/nation.
• If your beliefs still seem fair then they probably are. If not then change your mind. Much of the time you really just need to fine tune or adjust your opinions or beliefs rather than changing them entirely.
• (This one is obvious) Be willing to change your mind if you're proven wrong at a later time.
• Realize that people have bias, opinions and inner hurts that can cause them to be offended by things you say quite easily.
• Accommodate those who can easily be hurt but only to a degree ...
• Be fair and unpartial. In other words while accommodating person X you may actually end up being unfair to person Y. That's something to avoid.

Now the problem is finding relatively intellectually honest and fair minded people to provide those reality checks. They can be in short supply, and you certainly cannot trust everyone to guide you true. But you should find them -- find people you trust to guide you true, then honestly weigh and evaluate their advice.

That's good advice.

We seem to get accused of racism if we just don't find some races attractive. For me, it is mostly about the features rather than any colour - I had a love-at-first-sight moment with a very dark-skinned female, for example - but many blacks I just do not find attractive at all, although many I do. All depends upon the facial features more than anything else. I am a racist for being so?

No you aren't racist for that. But that doesn't mean people won't call you racist.

 

[Spiderman]

What I cherish more than anything, is Faith, spirituality, and morals, and I believe that some of the indigenous cultures may have been Superior to Europeans, in what I cherish most.

What I cherish in a person most, is their meekness, their humility, self-control, courage, prudence, their ability to forgive, their ability to be a peacemaker, their charity, their detachment from hedonism, materialism, and detachment from pride and things like reputation.

I think indigenous cultures, may have been superior to European cultures, in the virtues and spirituality that I cherish most, on average.

I am far more drawn to Native American and Eskimo shamanism, than I am to Christianity. I believe Shaman (and medicine-man) practices and spiritual life, is deeper, more beautiful, and gets a person more connected to the spiritual world, then the practices of Christianity. I believe it is just more spiritually advanced, deeper, more beautiful, less narrow-minded,and produces more of the results I'm looking for, than Christianity.

So when it comes to the virtues and spirituality that I cherish most in a person and in a culture, I see evidence that the indigenous cultures were doing a better job than Europe.

So, I can't see them as any lesser or worse of a culture.

 

[Spiderman]

I guess lesson learned, since I'm not a minority, I'll never know what it is like, therefore, should not be making the assumption that a group is better off as a result of Western Civilization.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I personally don't understand why I was tagged. @PopeADope I have learned thus far on this website the cultural biases many of you have against black people. Many of you are old or older than me and still hold ignorant views and no matter how much I articulate and refute those internal biases many of you have, you're comfortable with your own prejudices. The frustrating part for me on this website outside discussing religion as a black man is that many of you are so stupid about my black culture. Many of you are close mind and unwilling to listen to my viewpoint as a black man because you rather settle for what you see on the news. What I see on this website is a mild form of what I've experienced on black extremist websites. although some of you are culturally progressive, the many of you are not. What do I say to someone who comes to me riding themselves of racist cultural beliefs nothing. I really don't give a s*** what many of you believe about me or my culture cause I think many people here reflect the stupidity of the lack ethnic cultures, but that is the thing that perplexes me.
re so-called professionals and still hold internal racial prejudices, but cannot or unwilling to expand your mind to listen from someone outside those prejudices. I still think you need to not post when you have psychological episodes going on. That is like me getting a divorce but make threads bashing women.

 

[Spiderman]

I personally don't understand why I was tagged. @PopeADope I have learned thus far on this website the cultural biases many of you have against black people. Many of you are old or older than me and still hold ignorant views and no matter how much I articulate and refute those internal biases many of you have, you're comfortable with your own prejudices. The frustrating part for me on this website outside discussing religion as a black man is that many of you are so stupid about my black culture. Many of you are close mind and unwilling to listen to my viewpoint as a black man because you rather settle for what you see on the news. What I see on this website is a mild form of what I've experienced on black extremist websites. although some of you are culturally progressive, the many of you are not. What do I say to someone who comes to me riding themselves of racist cultural beliefs nothing. I really don't give a s*** what many of you believe about me or my culture cause I think many people here reflect the stupidity of the lack ethnic cultures, but that is the thing that perplexes me.
re so-called professionals and still hold internal racial prejudices, but cannot or unwilling to expand your mind to listen from someone outside those prejudices. I still think you need to not post when you have psychological episodes going on. That is like me getting a divorce but make threads bashing women.

Thank you for the feedback.

but no, I am not comfortable with my views. they are inner convictions that I do not want to have.

I am indeed trying to change, and whatever the truth is, that is precisely what I want to embrace with all of my heart.

 

[Spiderman]

Anyway, @Epic Beard Man ,
You are intelligent, educated, and from what I know of you, I consider you better for society than I am, and in that sense a better person.

Consequently, I do regret the conflict between us, and the negative emotions, that my comments created.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Thank you for the feedback.

but no, I am not comfortable with my views. they are inner convictions that I do not want to have.

I am indeed trying to change, and whatever the truth is, that is precisely what I want to embrace with all of my heart.

Look, if you live in an environment that is impoverished or is below middle class where many inhabitants are using government assistance and you see a lack of work ethic, this may confirm an implicit bias you have. I would have thought my presence here alone would prove otherwise.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Anyway, @Epic Beard Man ,
You are intelligent, educated, and from what I know of you, I consider you better for society than I am, and in that sense a better person.

Consequently, I do regret the conflict between us, and the negative emotions, that my comments created.

Like I said this forum is mild compared to forums I've started discussing in. Although some of us can come together in a cohesive manner on certain subjects, when it comes to discussions on race, the implicit racial biases tends to come out. I think my thread regarding Indians was self-evident. Despite those of us holding professional jobs and academic diplomas, there are those of us even with higher education still maintain a narrow view of the world, and of others. From a personal standpoint it really doesn't matter whether you want to change your views or not because at the end of the day, for every one person who holds similar or the same views as you, there are twenty more that think negative about me without knowing me personally. I've had to face these racial stereotypes all my life. I call myself coming to here to learn because that is what I love to do, but when racism rises its ugly head, I am reminded that no matter how educated I am I cannot escape the reality that people still think negatively about people that look like me. I'm just rather frustrated and tired.

 

[Spiderman]

Look, if you live in an environment that is impoverished or is below middle class where many inhabitants are using government assistance and you see a lack of work ethic, this may confirm an implicit bias you have. I would have thought my presence here alone would prove otherwise.

Your presence here means a lot.

And this forum and Country needs more people like you. I mean that!

Yes, the people that I've lived with have consistently been impoverished, addicted, or criminal.
That alone, has had a huge impact on my views. I have to keep in mind, that that mentality is not the norm

 

[Spiderman]

Like I said this forum is mild compared to forums I've started discussing in. Although some of us can come together in a cohesive manner on certain subjects, when it comes to discussions on race, the implicit racial biases tends to come out. I think my thread regarding Indians was self-evident. Despite those of us holding professional jobs and academic diplomas, there are those of us even with higher education still maintain a narrow view of the world, and of others. From a personal standpoint it really doesn't matter whether you want to change your views or not because at the end of the day, for every one person who holds similar or the same views as you, there are twenty more that think negative about me without knowing me personally. I've had to face these racial stereotypes all my life. I call myself coming to here to learn because that is what I love to do, but when racism rises its ugly head, I am reminded that no matter how educated I am I cannot escape the reality that people still think negatively about people that look like me. I'm just rather frustrated and tired.

I understand!

I would honestly rather be dead, than be a racist bigot!

That is very ugly, and I'm sorry you've had to be exposed to it so much.

It was naive and inaccurate of me to believe that America has come so far and just passed all of that.

I really want to purge my heart of something so ugly, and keep in mind how many good and innocent people have been harmed as a result of such views, that I unfortunately was propagating to a certain degree.

Not cool!

 

[Revoltingest]

I really appreciate any help you have to offer.

I know all about offending other people.
(You should see some of the PMs I get from them!)
Express your opinions to people.
Discuss them.
It's why we're here.

 

[RESOLUTION]

So, I have some very offensive opinions and views that have really offended a lot of people at this forum and in real life.

I'm ashamed of it, and rightfully so.

I don't want to be that way.

My question is, what do I do to purge myself of deep-seated views and convictions that I believe to be true, that are extremely offensive to people?

I have firm convictions in my heart that the belief is true.

But it is simply unacceptable to talk about such things.

How would you recommend I shake the conviction that such offensive beliefs are true?

I really appreciate any help you have to offer.

I simply don't want to believe these things, or think this way, but I feel like my ability to change it, is about as difficult as it would be for the average homosexual to choose to be heterosexual.

It isn't like they can change the fact that they are attracted to the same gender.

Likewise, it isn't like I can choose to not believe these deep-seated convictions of heart.

But I want to.

Man has double standards, unfortunately. We make decisions purely on what is taught to be right at the times we live in. Being told what you must think about anything is pure wrong. Not everything is black and white.
But all must be allowed to believe what they believe is right and wrong but none must harm another because of that belief;

 

[Spiderman]

@Epic Beard Man,
I am moved with compassion to hear what you're going through. And I feel sick of myself for sharing the convictions of my heart.

It was very inconsiderate of you , and I have no clue what it feels like to be discriminated against based on how I look. I have no clue what it's like to be a minority, and know that my ancestors were forcibly taken from their Homeland as slaves, abused in every way, treated less than human, and sometimes lynched and executed, even after slavery was abolished.

I know saying sorry again isn't going to mean anything. Actions speak louder than words. I guess the best thing I can do to make reparation, is keep my thoughts to myself when it comes to feelings about Western Civilization improving the lives of the cultures they destroyed and the people they conquered.

It was an ignorant, inconsiderate thing I said, and I do recognize that now, and feel genuine sorrow and contrition about the way you have been treated, and the frustration you are feeling.

I'm hurting over it. And rightfully so.

God bless you!