1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Origin of Hanuman (Mohini and Shiva??)

Discussion in 'Hinduism DIR' started by dharma_seeker, Jan 16, 2010.

  1. dharma_seeker

    dharma_seeker Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2009
    Messages:
    213
    Ratings:
    +22
    Lord Hanuman is a deity in Hinduism born during treta yuga and present in Ramayan. He was a Bhakt of Lord Rama and helped Lord in his mission to kill demons. He was born in vaanar species. Species of Vaanar can be closed linked to Homo erectus.

    This is what everyone know or should know about Hanuman's origin:

    Lord Hanuman was born from Mata Aanjana. She was a Apasara (celestial dancer) in her previous birth named Punjisthala. She and Pavan Dev (God of wind) were in love. But due to certain circumstances, she was cursed to be born into a VAANAR yoni.

    The only way to get relief from that curse, Aanjana mata had to pray to Lord Shiva. Lord Shiva gave her boon that in her next life she will give birth to his 11th rudra avatar (Shiva's ansh Avatar) and will get relieved from the curse. At the same time King Kesari was cursed as well to be born into a Vaanar yoni and became husband of Aanjana.

    Now you make ask what about Pavan Dev and their love. Well, Lord Shiva suggested to Pavan dev to forget about Punjisthala as their love caused them to be cursed and brought misfortune. So, Pavan dev purified himself by doing tapasya of lord shiva. Aajana Mata had already forgotten about her past life and about Pavan Dev.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Hanuman is called Pavan Sut, Anjaneya, Kesari nandan, Maruti, Shankar Suvan etc.

    There are various puranic stories regarding Hanuman's birth. One can still link them together without much difference though. I will give through them now.

    In Ramayan, it was Pavan Dev who impregnated Anjana by planting into her womb a son who would be as swift as him and unique in valor, wisdom and might (this was done without injuring her chastity, simply by embracing her) and thus she gave birth to Hanuman.

    So, in Ramayan there is no mentioning of Lord Shiva or anything about Mohini.

    Later in Puranas we get to know that Pavan Dev actually transferred the virya (semen/seed) of Shiva in her womb.

    Something that does not make sense to me is this story from Shiva Purana that talks about the Shiva's virya.

    "One day Siva saw the Mohini form of Vishnu. He was struck by Kama's
    arrows and let fall his seed. The Seven Sages put the seed in a pot
    and they infused it into the daughter of Gautama through her ear. In
    time, Hanuman, the monkey-god, was born from it." -- Siva Purana

    There are other Puranic stories relating to Lord Shiva and Mohini's union resulting in falling of Shiva's virya on ground and being carried by Pavan Deva.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    My question/views:

    The story of Lord Shiva's union with Mohini and origination of Hanuman seems demeaning to both Lord Vishnu and Shiva as well.

    How could someone who is Shavite explain this story in a proper sense? the only thing hard to digest for me was about the gods... i mean, if the things were written about non-supreme powers doing it, i would have no problem comprehending it. but the thing is, shiva and parvathi are together, but was just wondering why only vishnu had to come in mohini avatar, why not parvathi?

    As per Bhagvattam, there is no mention of Mohini having any kind of relation with Siva. It is true that Siva goes to Lord Vishnu and begs Him to show Mohini form; Lord Vishnu shows the form to Siva out of pure compassion for His devotee (Siva). Siva falls for the form and even embraces Mohini but nothing happens.

    I truly think it is demeaning to Lord Vishnu(Krishna) for anyone to think that the Supreme Lord took a female form and had a union with Siva to have a child. It is also demeaning to Lord Shiva who falls for Mohini form when Lord had Parvati besides him??

    I think this is something totally new and made up. People will keep making up new stories and we are expected to keep swallowing them.

    A common hindu who worships Lord Shiva will get shocked if he finds that Lord Shiva had a union with mohini and got excited and let his semen fell on ground. How can MahaDEVa (greatest among all Devas) do something like this when he is already married to Mata Parvati? Why did Siva want Mohini in the first place, when he had Mother Parvati by his side (or half his body)? I find all this reprehensible.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

    Comments from Vaishnavs and Shavites are most welcome!

    Even the story regarding Ayyappan and HariHara has similar context about Shiva and Mohini uniting to give birth to Ayyappa.??
     
  2. Satsangi

    Satsangi Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    897
    Ratings:
    +96
    Friend Dharma_seeker,

    (1) Many stories in the Puranas are there so that the devotee learns the importance of Dharma; it is not to demean either Lord Shiva or Lord Vishnu. The Lords are above the Kama; Kamadev was destroyed by the third eye of Lord Shiva.

    The moral for a devotee from this story is that even if you have ascended great spiritual heights, do not experiment with your inherent spiritual enemies- kama, krodha, moh, mada, matsar etc.

    (2) I am not aware any story of actual union of Lord Shiva and Mohini Avatar as u put it.

    (3) From a Yogi's view point, Virya does not translate directly into physical semen either. I am actually having hard time putting what it is in English language.

    (4) Just take the story as a leela of the Lord. Lord Shiva had to keep his boon to the devotee and hence had to let go His seed. But, He had destroyed the Kaam totally from Him. Hence, He took help from Lord Vishnu (who in my opinion is just a different face of Lord Shiva); no other creature would have invoked Kaam in Lord Shiva except His own wish to keep up the boon to His devotee.

    (5) I also disagree that Vanar Yoni translates directly into a monkey. Moreover, Anjani Maa was doing the Mantra for Vayudev and hence Lord Hanuman is called Vayuputra.

    Regards,
     
  3. dharma_seeker

    dharma_seeker Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2009
    Messages:
    213
    Ratings:
    +22
    Thanks very much for replying, Friend Satsangi,

    I agree Puranas are there to learn about Dharma. It is for those who are unable to or have less intelect to read and understand the Vedas. However, I dont think that every single incident in the Puranas must have happened. There are some interpolations or made up stories that have been added by people later on may be due to the requirement of the time.

    Indeed, Kamadev was destroyed by the third eye of Lord Shiva, but that was some other story. He was burnt to ashes and later born as Pradyuman. But in this story, it is not so.

    Hmm, I checked Shiva Purana, Ramayana, Bhagavattam scriptures and none talks about the actual union of these two. But it talks about Shiva running after Mohini due to lustful desires. At most, Lord Shiva just embraced Mohini.
    Read Bhagvattam, Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 8 Chapter 12 here, Chapter 12.

    But if read about the story of Ayyappan or HariHara, there is a union between Shiva and Mohini, which gives birth Ayyappan or Hari Hara.
    Ayyappan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia refer to background section.

    Well, I was trying to see how "Jai Hanuman" TV serial on Lord Hanuman showed this incident. They have done quite amazing job and did include this incident of Mohini and Lord Shiva. In there, Virya is shown as flame or jyot coming out of Lord Shiva's body and going to Earth.

    BUt you see, Shiva and Parvati Mata are together and then why does the Lord need to take help of Lord Vishnu? Why not Parvati?


    I always try to correct people regarding this as well that not to call Lord Hanuman merely as Monkey. Vaanar in Sanskrit does not equate to Monkey.
     
  4. Satsangi

    Satsangi Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    897
    Ratings:
    +96
    Parvati Mata and Lord Shiva are Bhakta and Bhagwan. In another story, Parvati Mata in her previous birth as Sati was not able to invoke any Kama in Lord Shiva; the Devatas wanted a Son of Shiva to destroy the demon (Lord Kartikeya was later born from Lord Shiva's sweat and He destroyed the demon). Mata achieved Lord Shiva by her devotion and not Kama.

    Lord Shiva does not need help from anyone; but Lord Vishnu has "equal status". (I consider both the Lords as same only).

    Regards,
     
  5. dharma_seeker

    dharma_seeker Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2009
    Messages:
    213
    Ratings:
    +22
    Thanks for clarifying! :)
     
  6. Mikael

    Mikael ...

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    82
    Ratings:
    +3
    What needs to be added is the FUNCTION of Anjaneya as the pefect devotee. This aspect of Shiva is one that we can easier identify with than the Mahadev-aspect of the lord. He gave us his form of Hanuman to show us the way to him.

    It is always hard to puzzle texts together. But the truth itself is never confused.

    "I agree Puranas are there to learn about Dharma. It is for those who are unable to or have less intelect to read and understand the Vedas." I REALLY think that if one want´s to learn about lord Shiva, his purana is the text to read. As highly as I regard the Vedas, it is still alot about sacrifying horses and drinking soma, as ways to get worldly pleasures.
     
  7. Satsangi

    Satsangi Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    897
    Ratings:
    +96

    The Vedas have Dharmas for all class of aspirants - rajasic, tamasic , sattvic, Nishkaam and kamya aspirants etc...... Most people start with remembering God only when their material desires/possessions are in danger. Very few aspirants give the sacrifice of their desires in the Bhram-Agni- this is the way to God; this is the highest form of Yagna in the Vedas.

    Regards,
     
  8. Mikael

    Mikael ...

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    82
    Ratings:
    +3
    I fully agree.
     
  9. dharma_seeker

    dharma_seeker Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2009
    Messages:
    213
    Ratings:
    +22
    Vedas clearly tells not to kill horses at various places. Dont mistransliterate the vedas or rely on wrong western interpretations!!
     
  10. Mikael

    Mikael ...

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    82
    Ratings:
    +3
    I know, I know :) , I was merely trying to stress, that the Purana of Shiva is the best if I want to learn about Shiva, and again and again experience his wondorous stories! The Vedas are of course a mightier source alltogether.
     
  11. Yagendhren Govender

    Yagendhren Govender New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Messages:
    4
    Ratings:
    +1
    The concept of Rudhra (Iruthuran) in Hinduism seems to have been misunderstood. Rudhra's of Siva are given the task of ruling over a certain world. They are given the initiation of Saaroopam (the form of Siva). Rudhra is totally totally blue-ish in color. Siva is known as Neelaganndaa (Blue 'Throated'). Siva does not meditate. He has no need to. The Hindu Trinity is a representative of the three Gunnaas; Sathwik, Thamasik and Raajasik. Some will argue that Vishnu represents Sathwik, but logically speaking, Rudhra represents this nature as he is always depicted in meditation, were as Vishnu is depicted sleeping or lying-down, hence, Vishnu represents Thamasik nature. Bramma, with his over-powering pride, is a representative of Raajasik. Now, you would've noticed that I did not mention Siva. Truly speaking, Siva is not one of the Hindu Trinity. Siva is described as He who destroyed the forts of the three Rulers of the Gunnaas. Therefore, Siva is unaffected by the Gunnaas, and infact, has control over them; meaning that Siva is not a representative of any Gunnaa; thus is not one of the Hindu Trinity. By this, it can be understood, given the logic on Monotheism, that none of the Hindu Trinity can be considered God/s.

    Hanuman being an incarnation of Siva is a misunderstanding that is born from the ignorance of philosophical investigation regarding the relationship of Siva and His Rudhraas. Hanuman, is the incarnation of Rudhraa, and not Siva as Siva is God and the Rudhraas are his very close disciples.

    Furthermore, in many, if not all, of Vishnu's incarnations, he worshiped Lord Siva. There are no authentic events where the opposite is true. How can Raamaa, wanting to perform Siva Poojai, instruct Hanumaan to go fetch a Sivalingam from Kaasi. If Hanumaan was Siva, Raamaa would've performed Siva Poojai for him (Hanuman). In addition, with all his power, Hanuman was no match for the Sivalingam that Sita built out of sand. Today, both Sivalingams are present at Raameshvaram.

    There are hundreds of cases where Siva manifested on Earth. None recorded was via the womb.
     
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...