Berachiah Ben Yisrael
Active Member
Can someone explain the oral Torah and show references as to where it came from and how it came into existence? Any scriptural references?
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Todah Posionshady313. I have seen this before and it has alot of info as to what oral torah claims to be and come from but is there any other proof? I mean is there anywhere in the written torah where it states point blank that there is also a oral torah and that you must have it to understand what you are reading? Is there any verse in the written where it plainly states that the oral was given along with the written? I understand that everything that was spoken is oral prior to writting, what was spoken, down. But to say that we have a written and also a oral makes me question as to where is it said?
Er the Talmud was completed after the sack of Jerusalem.
The Pharisee take on the Torah was the Talmud. The other Israelite Sects, the Sadducees and Essennes refused this Oral Torah.
After the sack of Jerusalem the Pharisees Oral torah survived on and the Pharisitic and Zealots (the political arm of Israel responsible for the revolt that ended in the Temples destruction and the massacre of the populace, religiously affiliated with the Pharisees) are the only surviving traditions of the Israel of old.
Before the temple tumbled around AD 70, all Jewish sects had equal right to worship at the Temple, as they all knew they worshipped the same God but had different ways of practising the tenants of the Torah.
Please direct me to the Torah passage that inspires a whole chapter on tying and untying knots on the Sabbath in the Talmud?? How is that really keeping the Sabbath holy?
You're not satisfied with the fourth post of this thread?
If you're looking for a verse that says "And God told the people "There is an oral law to be followed in conjunction with the written law. I am the Lord"
No such verse exists. No such verse needs to exist. The article I posted more than justifies biblical support of the existence of the Oral Torah.
Another great thread in the Judaism section. A christian comes in asking a supposedly innocent question about Judaism just so all the christians can tell the Jew why he and his religion are wrong.
Another great thread in the Judaism section. A christian comes in asking a supposedly innocent question about Judaism just so all the christians can tell the Jew why he and his religion are wrong.
As poison lady said, there is no verse that you look for. Without the Talmud though, you're really no different then Christians who read the text and apply their own interpretations to the text. Without the Oral law, any number of 'signs' can be interpreted any way they want. So tell me about tefillin and mezuzah without the oral law, or even better, how do you interpret the text since you obviously don't have either?Can we please stay on topic?
As poison lady said, there is no verse that you look for.
Without the Talmud though, you're really no different then Christians who read the text and apply their own interpretations to the text.
Without the Oral law, any number of 'signs' can be interpreted any way they want.
So tell me about tefillin and mezuzah without the oral law, or even better, how do you interpret the text since you obviously don't have either?
I am sincerely trying to understand these things and is the reason behind my questions. Im all for, and have no problem with, the oral Torah if there was proof scripturally but I see none and so I ask and as yet no one can give any concise respectable proof as to its authenticity of coming from Sinai.![]()
You seem to be confusing the concept of "proof" with "an explicit statement".
Can you use the text of the declaration of independence as proof that it was written by Thomas Jefferson? According to your standards, no, because there is no statement that explicitly says "This document that you're reading was written by Thomas Jefferson".
The sort of proof you seek exists through inference... clues, hints... and they're not hiding.
If God tells Moses something, and didn't see fit to have him write it down... then it must be oral. Quite a few instances tell you to do certain things... but don't tell you how. You really think Moses wouldn't have asked God when he had the chance?
According to the Torah, Moses lived to be 120. Do you really believe that each and every word God spoke to Moses was written down into what we know as the five books of Moses? Moses was unique among the prophets in that he was fully conscious and aware while he was talking to God... they communicated regularly.
Let me put it to you in simple terms:
If a verse in Leviticus said "Jump, so saith the Lord"... Moses asked God "How high?"... and he jumped that high.. . and told the people with him "how high"... and they told their children... and they told their children.
If you're looking for the Talmud to be an explicit command, you won't find it. All that means is that proof of the oral law isn't explicit. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
So you see Poisonshady, even though you may have been raised a Jew by Jewish parents who's liniage goes all the way back to Mount Saini and your family have thousands of years of Jewish thought and teaching and you may have personally attended a yeshiva and have been through the theological equivalent of an associates degree in Judaic studies, as has been pointed out here you are simply wrong about the religion you follow. Oral Torah is obviousely false. [/sarcasm]