On Love

[joeboonda]

Hi Draka and all, I apologized to Shadow Wolf for my scripture presentation in a pm, and I apologize to you too. I think we are all the same, if someone of a different faith tried to get me to change mine, I would talk to them, but would not change my faith, as I am rooted and grounded and sure of it. I too, feel in my faith that our duty is to tell the good news, and that is it. We are also to be ready to give an answer to anyone who asks us about the hope we have, but not to beat them over the head with it. Anymore, aside from talking to someone who asks, or posting on forums, I try to just love people and tell them that I am a Christian, and not a very good one, but that I believe in Christ, and just leave it at that. I have had JW's and LDS's come to my door and I am kind to them, but I tell them I do not believe exactly as they do, and it seems to go okay. Again, I am very, very, sorry I guess this is not a debate thread, so, please forgive me for the scriptures I posted above, and love to you all and best wishes. And again, I apologize to you all, I am so sorry, I am not the sharpest tool in the shed sometimes, and I did not mean to offend or upset anyone with my words.
Thanks,
Mike

 

[barnabus]

What if said person acts from duty or obedience to the commandments of their God?

 

[Mike182]

i get pagans asking me why i have a faith in christ, but never have i met a pagan who has tried to convert me fully.

i have met christians who, after being told about my beliefs, do try to convert me.

the thing is, conversion will not work on me, i already believe!

 

[barnabus]

What if said person acts from generosity?

 

[turk179]

What if said person acts from duty or obedience to the commandments of their God?

What if said person acts from generosity?

Like I said before, I have no problem with someone saying a few lines out of scripture because they care and believe that I could benefit from it but if they continue to force their opinions on me then that becomes a problem.

As long as the person has good intentions and does not force their opinions on me then it does not matter what said person's motivation is. If said person is rude and forceful and continues to force their opinions on me after being asked not to and tells me that I will burn in hell if I don't accept Jesus in my life then it does not matter what said person's motivation is. It is wrong to treat people this way. Barnabus, please read my response. This response answers your questions about what said person's motivation is and what my response is to said person. It does not matter what said persons motivation is.

 

[barnabus]

I see.

 

[barnabus]

But on second thought, does persistence necessarily make for a negative or corrupt act? The alcoholic who is repeatedly denied liquor will most certainly be annoyed and irritated, but is not such a prohibition for his own good? Opinions or explanations?

 

[Draka]

But on second thought, does persistence necessarily make for a negative or corrupt act? The alcoholic who is repeatedly denied liquor will most certainly be annoyed and irritated, but is not such a prohibition for his own good? Opinions or explanations?

They are two completely different things to be persistent in. Alcohol not only causes severe judgement problems, brain damage, liver damage, heart problems, and mood changes...but the abuse of which can also destroy a family, even kill others. An intervention and denial of alcohol to that person is acting for their safety...against things medically, legally, and psychologically proven to be damaging...and the safety of those around them.

While the persistence to convert one person to another religion has absolutely NONE of those factors. Although you may BELIEVE that you are doing what is best for them, there is no validated PROOF that you are. You are going by belief alone...the other is supported by irrefutable evidence. Not to mention the biggest thing...if you care so much about this person that you want to "save" them do you realize that you may be destroying the essence of the person that they are? Religion and belief makes up and intregal part of who a person is and how they are with other people. While you might like someone who is Pagan, but wish to convert them, if you were to succeed, how do you know that the change of beliefs wouldn't change the very essence of who they are? They might turn out to be someone whom you would never even associate yourself with. Religion is a very touchy subject and can't really be compared to any "addiction" or "disorder".

 

[Shadow Wolf]

True story. I got visited by four people at work today, three of them gave me a tract, and one a business type card. One of the guys who gave me a tract simple said, after I rang up his transaction and gave him his change, have a nice day, ect., "Oh, and heres this from such and such baptist church." Personally, I don't mind not even half hearted witnessing attempts. The second one, talked with me for awhile I was out on smoke break, and after talking about gas prices and the weather, he gave me his tract, and invited me to attend his church, which I politly declined. He asked why, to which I responded "I'm just not the church going person" and he gave me his sales lines of "Jesus loves you, heaven and eternal rewards, God doesn't want me to go to Hell, etc., and if you change your mind, your always welcome." That is about all I want. You say why I should go, and leave me be. The third, during another smoke break, started a casual conversation, handed me his material, (and by now I am really wondering why there are so many people out on a Saturday trying to convert, as this is the first time it's happened since I've been at my current job) tells me what joy it is to be a Christian, and I tell him I am Pagan, and have the same "comfort and security" in my Gods and the Night. He get rather nasty about it, and I reminded him, I am happy with my choices. "Hopefully you'll change before you stand before God." was his departing line, to which I responded "Not a chance." That is the kind of conversion attempts I hate. The fourth guy, while I was changing outside trash cans, who I almost hit since it was dark, he came from the last pump, and had a slow and cautious walk that triggered my instincts into a defensive stance. He then introduced himself, said he didn't know if I was a church goer, but here is my card. I told him I don't go to church, for it is too political, and I am Pagan. He respected that, and said if I want to talk to him, give him a call anytime. That man I respected, for he showed respect towards me. I have honestly thought about calling him up, just to ask him his views on things such as "Christian Wiccans, Forgive and you will be forgiven - condemn and you shall be condemned" and a few other things.
Since you have many questions Barnabus, use that as a guide. Show the person respect, and they might respect you. Show no respect, you will be shown no respect. Persistantly pushing and even hinting at damnation is not showing respect.

 

[turk179]

I agree 100%

 

[Feathers in Hair]

Hi, guys. A gentle reminder- prostelytizing is against RF rules, and continuing to do so will result in warnings. If someone is wanting to ask an honest question, I'm sure we'll be happy to answer it. If it is a lead-in to being able to trying to discuss conversion, please simply don't do it. I respect you too much.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

But on second thought, does persistence necessarily make for a negative or corrupt act? The alcoholic who is repeatedly denied liquor will most certainly be annoyed and irritated, but is not such a prohibition for his own good? Opinions or explanations?

As others have noted, please be aware that this question invites other questions of just how the person asking percieves our religion. If certain religions are compared with liquor, and their followers as alchoholics, then the same comparison can be made with all religions, leaving the atheists as the only true role models.

In summary, persecution is asking the above question, having someone reply that "it doesn't work, since our religion is not harmful" and then answering "But it is because my religion teaches that it is, and my religion is the only right one." At that point, I don't lose respect for that person's path, but I lose respect for that person.

 

[1nharmony]

I too, feel in my faith that our duty is to tell the good news, and that is it. We are also to be ready to give an answer to anyone who asks us about the hope we have, but not to beat them over the head with it.

Though I don't label myself a pagan, I am a non-Christian (just so you know my perspective). When does evangelism cross over into persecution? When you beat them over the head with it. :bonk: (In "joeboonda's" own words.)

 

[1nharmony]

What if said person acts from duty or obedience to the commandments of their God?

barnubus, I would like to ask if evangelism and trying to actually convert someone are the same to you in regards to these questions? I see evangelism as simply the sharing of your beliefs with others whereas trying to convert a person becomes an attempt to convince them that your beliefs are the absolute truth. Is this fairly accurate?

 

[barnabus]

To answer your question, 1nharmony, I see conversion as one of the prime objective of evangelism. Why do you ask?