Omnipresence

[Tmac]

the word omnipresence and also God.

Well then thank you for your effort.
When I read books/articles such as this that pay such close attention to detail I am so impressed with the focus this mind must have had.
Does the Quran allow you to think of God as a parent and you as its child?

 

[Profound Realization]

Can we look at this word objectively? Where did this word come from, imagination of course but why? It will be said that God revealed itself and we became aware but I'd rather think that some person looked into themselves to the depth where they became aware and then enlighten us as to their discovery. Have you ever used your imagination on omnipresence, its easy to think of God as everywhere, all the time but imagine what this person must have felt?

I once used the tool of imagination to think of or have knowledge of what someone may have felt/experienced/discovered/come to know although in times past I have never felt/experienced/discovered/come to know.

Then I stopped thinking and imagining what it would feel like and set out on a gradual journey on my own after setting a series of goals using the mind. In honesty, I had little idea of what another may or may not have experienced or if it would even come to exist/be experienced within myself. Had little choice but to invoke trust/confidence that it would.

Empty the mind/die to self.... that is... de-learn conceptions, conditioning, all that was thought to be known or what I think something and/or nothing should appear or look it. Make no more judgements, form a neutral/open path to whatever may intuitively arise within. Making the pathways straight within. At first, this was kind of painful. Nothing easy about emptying the mind and de-learning, dying to self. Had to be cautious as the internal war was transpiring not to give judgement to the thoughts that were arising that conflicted with what I thought that I knew. But gradually, glimpses of death and destruction within were occurring events. As if chemical bonds were gradually being broken and new bonds were uniting. Some may also call this purification of the mind and heart.

Then a particular event/experience occurred within that left no doubt, was as if roaring energy conducted through water and blood were ever-flowing from head to toes lighting up in abundance all neurological pathways, radically transforming cells. The presence left no doubt.

But of course, words and having knowledge of and/or imagination and/or explanation do no justice. Good starting point, as fellow human beings from across the Earth have passed down their testimonies, told the way in their own symbols and languages and words.

 

[blü 2]

Where did this word come from

The idea of omnipresence as a quality of a chief god is known in antiquity. The Stoics, for example, conceived of God as material, permeating all matter and endowing it with the qualities of heat, movement, order and reason.

Indeed, all pantheism and panentheism entail the idea of a being who's everywhere at once. Thus they occur in eg old Vedic belief systems.

Once you have regard to Einstein, the idea of being everywhere in space becomes the idea of being everywhere in spacetime. Thus God perfectly knows everything that has happened, is happening, and will happen, down to the tiniest detail, the most trivial relationship, and for several reasons. First, because God is omniscient, second because God is perfect and therefore could make perfect guesses at anything not manifest, and third, because being omnipresent in spacetime God's looking at it right now.

Thus freewill is impossible, and humans can only ever think, say and do exactly what God foresaw (and thus intended) even before God made the universe. We have the illusion of free choice but we can only do exactly what we were always going to do.

Or else, of course, God is not omni at all, doesn't even exist at all, and humans lack freewill simply because the universe is physical and proceeds in terms of cause-and-effect and quantum randomness.

 

[idav]

it's sort of a Paradox if he is. though to be expected from the Christian God of the Paradox

It isn't so much a paradox since spacetime are essentially one thing. A being violating time would necessarily be violating space as well and vice versa.

 

[Father]

It isn't so much a paradox since spacetime are essentially one thing. A being violating time would necessarily be violating space as well and vice versa.

for him to be omnipresent a part of him has to be within the flow of time as well

 

[idav]

for him to be omnipresent a part of him has to be within the flow of time as well

Are you worried how time flows during timelessness? It's not like god goes on pause mode.

 

[idav]

Can we look at this word objectively? Where did this word come from, imagination of course but why? It will be said that God revealed itself and we became aware but I'd rather think that some person looked into themselves to the depth where they became aware and then enlighten us as to their discovery. Have you ever used your imagination on omnipresence, its easy to think of God as everywhere, all the time but imagine what this person must have felt?

It might experience heaven and hell at the same time.

 

[Tmac]

The idea of omnipresence as a quality of a chief god is known in antiquity. The Stoics, for example, conceived of God as material, permeating all matter and endowing it with the qualities of heat, movement, order and reason.

Indeed, all pantheism and panentheism entail the idea of a being who's everywhere at once. Thus they occur in eg old Vedic belief systems.

Once you have regard to Einstein, the idea of being everywhere in space becomes the idea of being everywhere in spacetime. Thus God perfectly knows everything that has happened, is happening, and will happen, down to the tiniest detail, the most trivial relationship, and for several reasons. First, because God is omniscient, second because God is perfect and therefore could make perfect guesses at anything not manifest, and third, because being omnipresent in spacetime God's looking at it right now.

Thus freewill is impossible, and humans can only ever think, say and do exactly what God foresaw (and thus intended) even before God made the universe. We have the illusion of free choice but we can only do exactly what we were always going to do.

Or else, of course, God is not omni at all, doesn't even exist at all, and humans lack freewill simply because the universe is physical and proceeds in terms of cause-and-effect and quantum randomness.

So you think the word can only refer to God and not something a human can experienced? How can we understand it if we have no experience of it?

 

[blü 2]

So you think the word can only refer to God and not something a human can experienced?

Yes. Any purported human experience of it would be at best illusion.

How can we understand it if we have no experience of it?

We endeavor to imagine it, or find metaphors (analogies) for it, as we do with words like omniscience, omnipotence, fairyland, &c.

 

[Tmac]

Yes. Any purported human experience of it would be at best illusion.

We endeavor to imagine it, or find metaphors (analogies) for it, as we do with words like omniscience, omnipotence, fairyland, &c.

So how do you interpret the phrases, Everywhere you go is home and you don't have to go anywhere to find what you are looking for?

It could be argued that all of life is but an illusion.

 

[blü 2]

Everywhere you go is home

That represents a particular mindset, particularly about oneself. It doesn't suggest that a human can be present everywhere at once.

you don't have to go anywhere to find what you are looking for

That doesn't suggest you can be everywhere at once either.

It could be argued that all of life is but an illusion.

Like Plato's cave. But I think reality is real enough to persuade us a world exists external to us, and that the physical sciences aren't wasting their time on illusions.

 

[Tmac]

That represents a particular mindset, particularly about oneself. It doesn't suggest that a human can be present everywhere at once.
That doesn't suggest you can be everywhere at once either.

Like Plato's cave. But I think reality is real enough to persuade us a world exists external to us, and that the physical sciences aren't wasting their time on illusions.

But it does imply that home is everywhere already and reality is only as real as you believe it to be and may I remind you that the majority of facts you believe in have never been proven by you so you are putting a lot of trust into your teachers, could I have said faith?

 

[Ralphg]

I come from the non-dual (God and creation are not-two) Advaita Hinduism school of thought on this.

I believe if it is all God. If we quiet our noisy, chattering layers of mind (no mean feat) completely we will experience the Oneness of all Consciousness/God/Brahman. The great adepts/masters that have experienced this know this omnipresence as a reality. For novices like myself, this omnipresence is a concept I only intellectually try to grasp.

Here's a method to get a glimps of what the great adepts/masters have experienced.

Lay down on your back with a pillow under your back and lean forward. Try to get your eyes as close to your belly-button as possible. Then start to 'mesmerize' your belly-button and meanwhile focus on words like; "this is me', "this is all I am", this is where my mother and I once where connected and so now I AM", "this is where the entire univers could fit in if I wanted it to and I would be the only one to get it out again". Technically you are sending yourself into a trance that way, let yourself go deeper and deeper and soon you will start to 'hallucinate' and 'see'.

Namaste

 

[blü 2]

But it does imply that home is everywhere already

It might imply that the speaker was of that opinion, but the opinion wouldn't last two minutes as a proposition about objective reality. A real 'home' is a place you can physically be, for instance, instantly ruling out anything not on earth, and a great deal that is. A metaphorical 'home' is not so restricted, but isn't a statement about reality,

reality is only as real as you believe it to be

I address that question with three assumptions ─ that a world exists external to the self, that our senses are capable of informing us of that world, and that reason is a valid tool.

Since you're posting on this site and addressing those posts to other people, you share at very least the first two of those assumptions so there's no argument between us about the existence of external reality.

It then remains only to remark that reasoned enquiry, of which scientific method is a subset, is the most accurate, most reliable and most objective means we know of to explore objective reality.

 

[Ponder This]

Can we look at this word objectively? Where did this word come from, imagination of course but why? It will be said that God revealed itself and we became aware but I'd rather think that some person looked into themselves to the depth where they became aware and then enlighten us as to their discovery. Have you ever used your imagination on omnipresence, its easy to think of God as everywhere, all the time but imagine what this person must have felt?

the dilemma of "empty space" is that "empty" describes a thing known as "space". "Space" is there.
"Empty" can only mean "empty of particular things that we imagine could be there".
But if it was truly "empty", then the "space" wouldn't be there at all.