Oh... my... God!

[sister M]

This is what Wahabbism is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahabbism

And a Wahabbi is someone who follows Wahabbism.

The men who did this to her, according to the article, were Saudian Arabian.

Of course this is not a practise of Islam, that has to be pointed out.

If they who have done this terrible thing to this woman and it is said that they are followers of Wahabbism, which truly is a term that I have only come in contact with in Western media, and reading what the website says that you pinpointed to says about it, it cannot be a teaching at all. There is something that is not correct in this.

 

[maggie2]

This practice is absolutely inhumane and must be stopped.

 

[Djamila]

If they who have done this terrible thing to this woman and it is said that they are followers of Wahabbism, which truly is a term that I have only come in contact with in Western media, and reading what the website says that you pinpointed to says about it, it cannot be a teaching at all. There is something that is not correct in this.

For me it's exactly the opposite. The only people I come across who don't know what Wahabbism is are Wahabbis who are pretending to be completely ignorant of other styles of Islam.

It would be like a Mormon from the United States saying, "What? Mormon? What's that? I've never heard of it... I'm just a Christian."

 

[jacquie4000]

In places like Egypt this was common practice in the hospital upon birth until I believe 1970 when I believe it was outlawed interesting article.

http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=ia&ID=IA15203

 

[TashaN]

This is what Wahabbism is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahabbism

And a Wahabbi is someone who follows Wahabbism.

Saudis are not Wahabbis and i won't take my religion from wikipedia.

The men who did this to her, according to the article, were Saudian Arabian.

Saudis living in Sandzak?

Where is Sandzak anyway?

 

[Djamila]

Saudis are not Wahabbis and i won't take my religion from wikipedia.

Saudis living in Sandzak?

Where is Sandzak anyway?

A Sandzak was an Islamic territorial entity (like a state, or a county) during the Ottoman Empire. Today, saying Sandzak refers exclusively to the Sandzak of Novi Pazar.

It is split in half between Serbia and Montenegro:

And is populated mainly by Bosniaks (Bosnian Muslims):

 

[Djamila]

Here is a more detailed map. You can see it used to be a part of the Sandzak of Bosnia - it's the small finger-shaped appendage on the lower right - you can see the city of Novi Pazar located there:

 

[Mavrikmind]

I agree that practice is disgusting and horrible. I've heard of stories like this one before but I've never really heard of why they do this. How could anyone rationalize something like this ? I know I can't think of any reason.

 

[lilithu]

Of course this is not a practise of Islam, that has to be pointed out.

True.

If they who have done this terrible thing to this woman and it is said that they are followers of Wahabbism, which truly is a term that I have only come in contact with in Western media

As I said, the term Wahhabi was introduced to me by Muslim friends and colleagues. The Western (or at least American) media is barely aware of it. (It would require a greater interest in Islam than most Americans have.)

We actually studied the Wahhabis in my class on "Religion and Science in Contemporary Islam" which was taught by a Muslim professor (from Indonesia). A quiet but powerfully spiritual man who introduced us to the wonderful works of Al Ghazali, Ibn Sina and others... and also some writings by Wahhabi's like Harun Yaha.

and reading what the website says that you pinpointed to says about it, it cannot be a teaching at all. There is something that is not correct in this.

There are Christians who bomb clinics that provide abortions, and they do it in the name of their God. This is not a practice of Christianity, but that doesn't mean the bombers don't think of themselves as Christian.

 

[TashaN]

Hi The Truth, I've been expecting you.

I know.

The government of the U.S. considers the government of Saudia Arabia to be an ally in the war on terror. Our govt conveniently found no evidence of Saudi involvement in 9/11 even tho 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi nationals and Osama bin Laden was from a wealthy Saudi family.

Osama bin Laden and his followers are considered to be traitors according to the government and this idea is supported by the famous Muslim scholars there for violating the government law and helping, training and funding members who organized series of attacks inside Saudi Arabia and i witnessed one of their attacks recently when i was in Saudi Arabia and i watched by my own eyes the hilocapters looking for those crimenals and the place where those people did attack.

(Where did the money come from for the attacks??!)

I guess you are fully aware of the involvement of the USA government in this incident and the lies they were trying to spread to their people. Believe me, Saudi Arabia will never betray USA as long as Iran still exist in that area, and i don't have to remind of how USA, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and several other countries supplied Saddam to wage a war with Iran which caused the Gulf war 1.

INSTEAD, we declare war on Iraq, supposedly to defend the world from weapons of mass destruction.

You know well all that appeared to be just plain lies and everybody knows by now (i assume you are one of them) that USA went for Oil and for political gain in that area. USA would cooperate even with the devil if it was for their own interest.

P.S. When i say USA i mean the government but not the people.

Well, for starters, the article says that these Wahhabi men came from Saudi Arabia.

So what?

There are Muslims who were born in UK and they tried to bomb the airport or some airplanes i guess. Just because they came from Saudi Arabia so that means Saudi Arabia sent them to do this task? Come on !

Secondly,

Wahhabism, is to Islam what the Christian far right/Fundamentalists is to Christianity. It insists on a rigidly literalist interpretation of the Qur'an. It teaches that those who are not Muslims are infidels and enemies. The Taliban is Wahhabi. Osama is Wahhabi. That doesn't mean that all Wahhabi's are terrorists. But if we're looking for places where hatred against the U.S. might be fomented, this would be where to look instead of condemning all of Islam.

If teaching of Islam taught in Saudi Arabia are generating terrorists so i guess i'm one of them "according to you" because i was born, raised and lived in Saudi Arabia my whole life even though i'm not Saudian.

All this time, i never see, read or heard any teaching in saudian schools that state that the non-muslims are enemies, rather they teach us how to be good to them the way prophet Mohammed "may Allah's peace and blessing be upon him" was dealing with the non-muslims (i.e. jews, christians, idol worshippers).

This is an example:

Those who were his enemies and stoned and ridiculed him heard this animating divine words: “It was by the mercy of Allah that thou wast lenient with them (O Muhammad), for if thou hadst been stern and fierce of heart they would have dispersed from round about thee. So pardon them and ask forgiveness for them and consult with them upon the conduct of affairs. And when thou art resolved, then put thy trust in Allah. Lo! Allah loveth those who put their trust (in Him).” (Al-`Imran: 159) This was the voice of Muhammad.

The following pure words were imprinted on the minds of those who were endeavoring in the path of Allah for a better life, and were ready to support him (Muhammad) in his campaign against idol-worship and evil doing, and were afraid lest their rights and good conduct might be wasted in the battle-field. “Remember! Don't be treacherous. Don't commit breach of trust. Don't kill either a child or a woman or an old man or a monk in a monastery. Don't burn a date-palm tree and don't cut any tree nor pull down a building.” This voice was the voice of Muhammad.

This voice of the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, was a call for human brotherhood. It stopped the hands of the rulers from reaching the property of the subjects and gave equal rights to all human beings. In his religion there is no discrimination between a common man, a ruler and a subject; an Arab and a non-Arab, because all human beings are the slaves of Allah and it is He who provides sustenance to all of them.

From: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=720581#post720581

Post #167.

Wahhabism's connection to Saudi Arabia is that several of the Saudi princes are Wahhabi

Most of them are seculars.

and the predominant form of Islam in Saudi Arabia is Wahhabi.

There is no proof for that. All the rules of Saudi Arabia are derived from the Quran and the Sunnah.

AGAIN, this does not mean that all Saudis are bad etc. and I certainly am not advocating for war against Saudi Arabia. But I do wonder why it is that the U.S. govt decided to go after Saddam instead of putting pressure on the Saudi govt to clean their own house.

They are cleaning it pretty well. I see that everyday in the newspaper plus the things i see by my own eyes. Everyday they are catching terrorists.

More relevant to this thread, when the Taliban ruled Afghanistan they had the "morality police" go around attacking, mutilating, and even killing women who didn't conform to their rules of moral behavior. The same kind of "morality police" continue to operate in Saudi Arabia.

Saudi "morality police" don't kill in saudi arabia but they are part of the government and they just make sure of the morality in streets. They beat no one and kill no one. Sometimes, when i chat with my friends during the prayers or before, they come over to us so friendly and they give us some advices then go. They never touch us. They just talk, joke and laugh with us. I'm aware of some of their members who try to use force, but they will directly be punished for doing so. Now, most of things are handled by the police.

Only very recently did the govt declare that these "police: were not allowed to "interrogate" those they arrested but people are still arrested for things like holding hands in public or women who show anything more than their eyes... or drive cars

Driving cars is another isse, but regarding women and eyes. I live there and i see women who cover only their hair, even some of them show some hair plus their faces, and some even go further than that and do make up. Nowdays, women are reporters and they appear on tv to read the news in saudian offecial channels.

The Truth, I did not even know about Wahhabism until some of my Muslim friends and colleague told me about it. Actually, they would talk about how wonderful Islam is, how maligned and misunderstood it is, until one would mention the Wahhabi's and then they'd all grimace and say 'Oh... them.'

I'm aware of that and i know that many saudian take Islam so litreally and some even are a bit extereme but most of them are good and have a great effort in serving this religion around the whole world. Maybe that's because they don't have alot of preasure from the inside like other countries who have non-muslim minorities.

 

[TashaN]

Thanks for the map Mila.

 

[kiwimac]

Saudis are not Wahabbis and i won't take my religion from wikipedia.



Saudis living in Sandzak?

Where is Sandzak anyway?

The major form of Islam in Saudi Arabia is Wahabbiyyah and some form or other of Salafiyyah. You know this, I know this, any one who has studied islam knows this.

 

[Green Gaia]

A truly digusting practice.

I know this has been posted already, but I'm posting again: http://web.amnesty.org/actforwomen/index-eng

 

[TashaN]

The major form of Islam in Saudi Arabia is Wahabbiyyah and some form or other of Salafiyyah. You know this, I know this, any one who has studied islam knows this.

Do they call themselves Wahabbis?

Just because some people call them with that so that won't make them so.

If someone called you hey "bird", wings won't come all of the sudden from under your arm so you can fly like a bird.

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

I don't know what wahabbis really is but I know what salafis are. They pretend to be going along with quran and sunnah but only their interpretation of it. The ones I met reject the scolars and they reject the tafsir for many ayats of quran as well as hadith. They figure they can figure it out on their own and don't need any help. They also think that if you don't call urself a salafi then you aren't really muslim which is ridiculous.

 

[ch'ang]

I find it laughable that there is this much outrage over one incident of genital mutilation overseas when here in America a little baby boy has his genitals permanently mutilated (i.e. circumcision) every 24 seconds and there is barely a whisper.

 

[lilithu]

I guess you are fully aware of the involvement of the USA government in this incident and the lies they were trying to spread to their people. Believe me, Saudi Arabia will never betray USA as long as Iran still exist in that area, and i don't have to remind of how USA, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and several other countries supplied Saddam to wage a war with Iran which caused the Gulf war 1.

You know well all that appeared to be just plain lies and everybody knows by now (i assume you are one of them) that USA went for Oil and for political gain in that area. USA would cooperate even with the devil if it was for their own interest.

P.S. When i say USA i mean the government but not the people.

So what?

There are Muslims who were born in UK and they tried to bomb the airport or some airplanes i guess. Just because they came from Saudi Arabia so that means Saudi Arabia sent them to do this task? Come on !

I don't want to get into an argument here about conspiracy theories regarding the U.S.'s role in 9/11. As for Saudi Arabia, you may not believe me when I say this but I have not made up my mind that members of the Saudi govt were involved. I don't have enough data. All I do know is that there is more evidence linking the Saudi govt than there was linking the Iraqi govt. You say the Saudi royal family is cleaning house. I hope so.

If teaching of Islam taught in Saudi Arabia are generating terrorists so i guess i'm one of them "according to you" because i was born, raised and lived in Saudi Arabia my whole life even though i'm not Saudian.

I was very careful to say that I know that not all Saudis are terrorists; nor are all Wahhabis terrorists. Rather the extremist and exclusivist views are more likely to lead to intolerance, and violence, than would more moderate views. I rarely make all-or-nothing statements or generalize across a whole or generalize accross a whole group of people.

There is no proof for that. All the rules of Saudi Arabia are derived from the Quran and the Sunnah.

So it's written in the Qur'an and/or the Sunnah that women can't drive cars??

So far your denials of the Wahhabi connection to Saudi Arabia sound like a semantic argument. What I and others are saying is that the form of Islam practiced in Saudi Arabia and surrounding regions tends to be more literalist, more strict, more exclusionist (and more sexist) than the form of Islam practiced in other parts of the world, like for example Bosnia or Malaysia. Whether or not the practitioners actually refer to themselves as Wahhabis is beside the point. I know that other Muslims are calling them Wahhabis. It's not just a Western invention.

Driving cars is another isse, but regarding women and eyes. I live there and i see women who cover only their hair, even some of them show some hair plus their faces, and some even go further than that and do make up. Nowdays, women are reporters and they appear on tv to read the news in saudian offecial channels.

From what I understand it varies from region to region how strictly these dress codes are enforced. (Did you notice that my link was to a pro-Muslim site? pro-moderate Muslim.)

I'm aware of that and i know that many saudian take Islam so litreally and some even are a bit extereme but most of them are good and have a great effort in serving this religion around the whole world. Maybe that's because they don't have alot of preasure from the inside like other countries who have non-muslim minorities.

I believe you. I believe that most Saudis are good people who try to be faithful Muslims. And you know that there are very few non-Muslims in these forums who are friendlier to Islam than myself. Whatever I say there are many here who say or think far worse. And I'm painfully aware that anti-Muslim sentiment is so high right now that any criticism of any group of Muslims will justify the hatred of all Muslims in the minds of some. But I still believe that there's something here that needs to be addressed, and if it's not addressed it will only make matters worse. I do not believe that it is a coincidence that 15 of the 19 hijackers and the attackers in this story originated from your country. (Again, that doesn't mean that I think that all Saudis are terrorists/violent, and yes I know that the U.S. has done a lot of terrible things.)

And you may at this point say as you said before that there's no such thing as a moderate or extremist Muslim; there are only those who practice the faith and those who do not. I recognize the logic in that statement, honestly, but if you are unwilling to recognize that there are some who practice Islam who are more prone to intolerance and violence than others, then you will not be able to address the fact that there are those who kill in the name of your religion. And if you insist that the West view all Muslims as the same regardless of their varying views, then Westerners will tend to view ALL Muslims as extremists and a threat. I don't want Westerners to think that way.

So please don't just respond by denying it or getting mad at me. I would like there to be a real dialogue.

 

[lilithu]

I find it laughable that there is this much outrage over one incident of genital mutilation overseas when here in America a little baby boy has his genitals permanently mutilated (i.e. circumcision) every 24 seconds and there is barely a whisper.

Dude, perhaps you need a refresher in sex ed. Cutting off the clitoris is not the same as cutting off the foreskin. It's more like cutting off the head of the penis.

 

[EiNsTeiN]

Actually, I lived a big part of my life in Saudi Arabia, and I know they are Wahabbies..
They dont call themselvs that way...

They are kind of Salafies any way, and named after a man lived in the 18'th century..

It's not an official sect, or group, just their method of understanding Islamic shariea is kind of being extremist...

 

[TashaN]

I don't know what wahabbis really is but I know what salafis are. They pretend to be going along with quran and sunnah but only their interpretation of it. The ones I met reject the scolars and they reject the tafsir for many ayats of quran as well as hadith. They figure they can figure it out on their own and don't need any help. They also think that if you don't call urself a salafi then you aren't really muslim which is ridiculous.

In Saudi Arabia, even there are many sects such as Shi'a and Sufis but most of them are Salafies. What i can tell you about the Saudian scholars in here are that they just try to follow the Quran and Sunnah excatly and they never reject tafseer or verses, etc but maybe that's only the case with some misguided people you met overthere because anyone who reject a single verse of the Quran is not muslim anymore for rejecting part of the word of God almighty.

Regarding calling themselves Salafies, i guess you didn't hear the right information. They called themseles Salafies (from the arabic word salaf) which refer to following the path of the earlier companions of prophet Mohammed after his death, their successors and all great scholars after them. They called themselves so to distanguish themselves from other misguided sects.