Of Walls and Wildlife

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yeah, they basically behave analogously to the homeless. It's what happens when a creature runs out of options. Though for many animals, they are not able to be as adaptable as the homeless. Many animals are what we could call specialists - able to sustain themselves only in a narrow range of habitats or have restricted food sources. They are pretty much just screwed when habitat destruction and fragmentation come down.

Oh, definitely. I was thinking of the people who are saying that they care less about the animals who are affected than they are about "border security". Even if they don't care about wildlife, they might care about their own dog getting eaten.

 

[suncowiam]

The basic premise is about resources. Who/what controls/consumes the resources.

If you are arguing only about land, well, what about the land that you've taken to displace all the native species that didn't need to migrate? Are you willing to give up your land for this ideal? Are you going to let animals walk over your land because they have a migration instinct? Are you going to let insects infest your house or bed because they found a place to live?

Again, this is purely subjective about what we can or cannot do for animals. If anyone really wants to put animal lives as equivalent as ours then, IMO, you haven't sacrificed enough of your own lives or your families to do so. This wall is not going to equalize that.

Here's a moral that all animal lives against: survival of the fittest.

 

[Milton Platt]

An interesting article from BBC News recently on the little-discussed implications of building a giant wall between two countries and the problems of such habitat fragmentations more generally:

"The US-Mexico border region is a delicate ecosystem located between two biomes, with regular animal and bird migrations moving between the north and south of the American continent.

...

Animals are susceptible to artificial borders of various shapes and sizes - not just walls but highways, train tracks and all sorts of man-made infrastructure.

...

Many historical human barriers had unintended ecological consequences, and did not have the benefit of environmental impact studies. Even in recent cases, the environment is often not a priority.

In the US, the 2006 Secure Fence Act - under the auspices of the Department of Homeland Security - waived a number of environmental laws, including the Endangered Species Act, in order to expedite an extension of the Mexican border fence."
*full article here*​

Humans tend to make their concerns the center of the universe, for better or for worse. One has to imagine that if this absurd wall proposal is entertained, normally mandatory environmental impact assessments will be disregarded and ignored. And, considering the sheer scale and scope of what has been suggested, this would be yet another travesty against our non-human relations, wouldn't it?

Mostly, I just wanted to bring attention to this particular facet of an often discussed political issue. Feel free to discuss or comment at your leisure.

I'm by no means a wall fan.....but I think accommodations can be made for migrations, etc. so I don't see this as a particularly robust argument against it.

 

[Valjean]

I'm by no means a wall fan.....but I think accommodations can be made for migrations, etc. so I don't see this as a particularly robust argument against it.

As I pointed out in post #11, it's more than just migrations. A wall through an ecosystem can cause the whole ecosystem to collapse.
Don't undervalue Nature. Any threat to a biome is an existential threat to the planet itself -- and ourselves.

 

[Milton Platt]

As I pointed out in post #11, it's more than just migrations. A wall through an ecosystem can cause the whole ecosystem to collapse.
Don't undervalue Nature. Any threat to a biome is an existential threat to the planet itself -- and ourselves.

But virtually everything we do has an impact....building cities, roads, canals, tearing up natural landscapes for farming.......the wall is a drop in the bucket. Again, not advocating for a wall...I think it's stupid.

 

[Valjean]

Sometimes a seemingly minor alteration can have a more profound effect that some large, extensive alterations. Some alterations can be beneficial.

 

[Quintessence]

I'm by no means a wall fan.....but I think accommodations can be made for migrations, etc. so I don't see this as a particularly robust argument against it.

Aside from what Valjean said about migrations not being the only issue, do you think that if this gets built folks are going to make such accommodations? I sure don't. Some of the creatures we're talking about are megafauna, meaning of they are accommodated, there will be ways for humans to use them too. It won't be done for that reason alone, even without the added expense considerations.