NoToReligion and SA Huguenot creation evidence.

[TagliatelliMonster]

Bizarre. Either you know nothing about The Bible or you're reading things in to science that really aren't there...

According to science, homo sapiens evolved from primate ancestors shared with chimps, gorilla's, etc through population genetics.
According to science, homo sapiens never consisted of just 2 individuals. There was a genetic bottleneck around 70.000 years ago and it still consisted of several thousand individuals.
According to science, all life on this planet shares ancestry.

To say that that lines up with the creation myth from the bible , is simply ridiculous.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

.
No.

Euh.... it wasn't a "yes/no" question......................

 

[ChristineM]

So what do we call something that just came into being?

Usually its called god magic but there are a couple of quantum explanations. Here it one such hypothesis
https://arxiv.org/abs/1404.1207

Atheism has no opinion on how things came about, the only thing that concerns it is : disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

As to how the universe came in to being there are several hypothesis, i know 29 (one is linked above). Each has validity in real observation or mathematically. None guess "d'oh, i don't understand so god musta dun it".

If such a hypothesis as god magic were to be accepted as valid you need to show a god exists to do his magic.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

.
No.

There really needs to be a "terminally confused" rating for some of your posts. What the hell... ?

 

[QuestioningMind]

NoToReligion. With reference to your post,
Debate on Creationism
I will be delighted to give you my point of view on why I believe there is a God who created it all.
I am a disbeliever in anything that does not have evidence, and surely will not believe in a God by "Blind faith".
My belief in God came from the propability that :
If there isa God, He would have spoken to humans here on the earth.
If He spoke to humans, then surely we can look at what He said and compare it with logic, science, and history.
If these descriptions agree, and we know it was conveyed at a time when no human would have known about these details, surely we should agree that there laythe evidence of a Creator.
If you find it in order to discuss it on this thread, lets continue.

I find two glaring errors in your argument.

1. How did you go about determining what words that people claim were spoken by god are the actual words of god and what is your method for deciding that those words agree with current scientific knowledge?
2. What does stating that God Did It when it comes to the universe do to increase our knowledge of how the universe came to exist in its current form? It seems to me that stating that God Did It is equal to stating I Don't Know. It doesn't get us any closer to understanding how it all happened. I could just as easily claim that the universe came about by accident as a byproduct of a magical pixie farting. My explanation gives us exactly as much information about HOW the farting of a pixie caused the universe that we know today to come into existence as your claim that God Did It does.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I am quite surprised that you claim to adhere to Judaism, yet you dont know about what God said in the Bible.

Your surprise is of no concern to me. As for the rest, I assure you that I am more than reasonably versed on Torah.

Why one word: Seriously?

Because the claim made was preposterous.

You seem to be raising fists!
is this the case?

Perhaps you're projecting?

 

[SA Huguenot]

I find two glaring errors in your argument.

1. How did you go about determining what words that people claim were spoken by god are the actual words of god and what is your method for deciding that those words agree with current scientific knowledge?
2. What does stating that God Did It when it comes to the universe do to increase our knowledge of how the universe came to exist in its current form? It seems to me that stating that God Did It is equal to stating I Don't Know. It doesn't get us any closer to understanding how it all happened. I could just as easily claim that the universe came about by accident as a byproduct of a magical pixie farting. My explanation gives us exactly as much information about HOW the farting of a pixie caused the universe that we know today to come into existence as your claim that God Did It does.

Well, as I said, when I looked at the Biblical view of creation, even if you would like to claim that it is man made, the words in Genesis is in written form available dating from 165BC.
I would certainly think that if such a book from 165BC can give us a clear scientific description on the origins of the Solar System and Earth, it must be regarded as corect.
Then I will make an educated assumption that this writing dating from 165BC, does actually date from its claimed 1500 Years BC.

 

[SA Huguenot]

According to science, homo sapiens evolved from primate ancestors shared with chimps, gorilla's, etc through population genetics.
According to science, homo sapiens never consisted of just 2 individuals. There was a genetic bottleneck around 70.000 years ago and it still consisted of several thousand individuals.
According to science, all life on this planet shares ancestry.

To say that that lines up with the creation myth from the bible , is simply ridiculous.

Wrong again.
According to the theory of Evolution you are a descendent of a "shared" ape.
And according to the Theory of evolution, there were more than several thousand "Shared" ape individuals that changed into humans.
According to the Biblical description all life shares a divine designed creation.
Sciense only affirms what the Bible say on this point.

 

[SA Huguenot]

Never heard of these people and I wasn't proposing a theory of creation - I was just referring to something that "just comes into being". Vacuum fluctuations are a normal part of the universe.

Perhaps you should actually try to come up with the first hint of the slightest reason to take your god idea seriously, instead of trying to build straw men to knock down.

Well, if you never heard of these people, dont even try to tell me about vacuum fluctuation etc.

 

[SA Huguenot]

The probability that he would have spoken to humans on Earth? Even then you're making it bigger than it was. He only spoke to one people, in one region, in only a few, small countries, until Rome came along. But really, why would God speak to humans on Earth?

The universe is large and amazing. If we are to believe that God created the universe as Genesis 1 says, we must take into consideration that universe. So let's just start with our galaxy. Do you know how massive our galaxy is? There's hundreds of billions of stars in our galaxy alone, with multiple planets around each one, and many able to host life. Yet God decides to talk to one species, on one planet, in one region, on just a few occasions, and commits genocide 5 times there. That's not even taking into consideration the bigger picture: the universe.

Now, let's talk about the universe. Did God really decide to make over 90% of the universe inhospitable for nearly all forms of life, including humans, just so he could wait 9 billion years to create Earth, 4 billion years to create humans, a couple hundred thousand more years for society to develop, to then reveal himself to some people and commit multiple genocides? Sounds a bit odd, don't you think?

And you continue to believe that God is bound by time?
You regard God as part of the universe?
You are of opinion that god is bound by Time, Matter and space!
You think God age!
I also do not believe in any such a God mate.
The description this God of mine gave me was that He created Space, Time, and Matter.
He is therefore external of these entities!
I will never believe in a God that age, deteriorates as matter, and consumes space.

This is your perception of God.

And yes, Why would God not create a gigantisistalicatist univers4e and create humans to be his friend?
or do you perhaps think God wont love to have something in this huge space to reply to His love?

I think Humans are the greatest creative achievement God made!
You think this too, only you call it evolution.

 

[ratiocinator]

Well, if you never heard of these people, dont even try to tell me about vacuum fluctuation etc.

You seem to have missed the point entirely. Vacuum fluctuations are a direct consequence of quantum field theory - I wasn't proposing them as a theory of how the universe came to exist.

My whole point is that why the universe exists and if we have a theory of it is utterly irrelevant to the question of a god.

The ultimate problem of why things exist are common to theism as well as atheism - neither offers an answer.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Wrong again.
According to the theory of Evolution you are a descendent of a "shared" ape.
And according to the Theory of evolution, there were more than several thousand "Shared" ape individuals that changed into humans.

Please inform yourself first, before trying to correct someone who actually understands the basics of evolutionary biology.

Evolution works on populations, not on individuals. Individuals don't "evolve" during their lifetime. It's a process that works cross-generation.

According to the Biblical description all life shares a divine designed creation.

Several distinct ones, which is counter the science.
In the bible humans are a seperate "creation". This is just plain false and in contradiction with the findings of science, no matter how you try to twist and turn it.

Sciense only affirms what the Bible say on this point.

It does not. Not even remotely. It instead says basically the exact opposite.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The description this God of mine gave me was that He created Space, Time, and Matter.

That's not a desription.

And yes, Why would God not create a gigantisistalicatist univers4e and create humans to be his friend?

Why would you think he did, would be a better question. Other then you already believing that he did, off course.

or do you perhaps think God wont love to have something in this huge space to reply to His love?

Reading the story, it rather seems this God character actually enjoys watching people suffer more then anything, while his "demand" for "love" and "worship" seems nothing but a petty and bully attempt to satisfy his narcistic ego.

I think Humans are the greatest creative achievement God made!
You think this too, only you call it evolution.

Or otherwise: only you go by what the actual evidence points to, instead of some fantastical thing that is indistinguishable from mere imagination.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Well, as I said, when I looked at the Biblical view of creation, even if you would like to claim that it is man made, the words in Genesis is in written form available dating from 165BC.
I would certainly think that if such a book from 165BC can give us a clear scientific description on the origins of the Solar System and Earth, it must be regarded as corect.
Then I will make an educated assumption that this writing dating from 165BC, does actually date from its claimed 1500 Years BC.

I asked for specifics and all you did was repeat what you said in the OP. What EXACTLY is in Genesis that you think matches what we currently know from science about how the universe and Earth began. And if there is an obvious error in genesis doesn't that indicate that it was NOT inspired by any god being? For instance, if Genesis foolishly claimed that the Earth existed BEFORE the sun, we'd KNOW that it wan't divinely inspired, right?

 

[SA Huguenot]

Usually its called god magic but there are a couple of quantum explanations. Here it one such hypothesis
Spontaneous creation of the universe from nothing

Atheism has no opinion on how things came about, the only thing that concerns it is : disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

As to how the universe came in to being there are several hypothesis, i know 29 (one is linked above). Each has validity in real observation or mathematically. None guess "d'oh, i don't understand so god musta dun it".

If such a hypothesis as god magic were to be accepted as valid you need to show a god exists to do his magic.

If you think I worship a God of the gaps, and use such a entity to explain how things got into being, you are so wrong, it is actually mindbogling how you can allow yourself to reason in such a box.
I will be the first Christian to deny a god made up to explain an occurance.

Your error is as such...
You think I have a problem explaining how the universe came into existance, and you then build this straw puppet called "I created a god that might have made it!"
On the contrary,
I traced the scientific explanations on how the Universe came into existence, and learned about Swedenborg, Kant and Laplace.
Then I followed the scientific discoveries by scientists over the past, say 250 years, and took the recently model of the nebular hypothesis, discoveries such as silver isotopes, zircon crystals, the Cola drill hole, The scablands and lake Missoula, cosmology comets, asteroids, meteorides, and all the nice things we can use to understand how the universe were shaped.

And guess what?
I learned that Kant was correct in 1755 in all his explanations, except of corse that life exists on mars, and he actually credited his Nebular hypothesis on the Bible and God!

Now this is not some claim to be lightly discarded!

No ways, it actually means that what is written in Genesis was a simplistic and minimalistic explanation of how God created the Universe!

Therefore your strawpuppet is burned!
I took science and realised science plagerised from the Bible!

 

[SA Huguenot]

There really needs to be a "terminally confused" rating for some of your posts. What the hell... ?

Gets under your skin doesnt it?

 

[SA Huguenot]

What does stating that God Did It when it comes to the universe do to increase our knowledge of how the universe came to exist in its current form? It seems to me that stating that God Did It is equal to stating I Don't Know. It doesn't get us any closer to understanding how it all happened. I could just as easily claim that the universe came about by accident as a byproduct of a magical pixie farting. My explanation gives us exactly as much information about HOW the farting of a pixie caused the universe that we know today to come into existence as your claim that God Did It does.

I will say... If you believe in Pixy farts creating everything, you have zero substance for your creation model.
I on the other hand, do not believe in a God as an explanation to existence.
And as I have said, My God is not an explanation,
No!
He explained, and what He said was written at a time where no person understood any of this!
Again, In the existence of humankind, and all their religions and gods and holy writings, the only one that has this simplistic explanation of the origins of everything compared with what science says, the Bible are far more superior than any.

 

[SA Huguenot]

You seem to have missed the point entirely. Vacuum fluctuations are a direct consequence of quantum field theory - I wasn't proposing them as a theory of how the universe came to exist.

My whole point is that why the universe exists and if we have a theory of it is utterly irrelevant to the question of a god.

The ultimate problem of why things exist are common to theism as well as atheism - neither offers an answer.

And this is obviously your opinion.
My opinion is that God said he created everything for you!
Man!
...to be His friend!
And if we look at what this God said on how Hedidit, it contains scientific observed substance!
And again, I like to tell atheists that the science they so dearly hold, was plagerised from Genesis.

Ohhhhhhfff!!!!
You should see how they then go full force on the attack.
And all I say is guys, go and see what Emmanuel Kant wrote in 1755 and come back to me.

Man, can they then go crazy!

 

[ratiocinator]

And again, I like to tell atheists that the science they so dearly hold, was plagerised from Genesis.

What science do you imagine atheists "so dearly hold"? Atheism doesn't necessitate any regard for any science. As for science being plagiarised from genesis, I can only assume that's a joke. There is no science in genesis.

 

[SA Huguenot]

Please inform yourself first, before trying to correct someone who actually understands the basics of evolutionary biology.

Evolution works on populations, not on individuals. Individuals don't "evolve" during their lifetime. It's a process that works cross-generation.

Realllllyyyyy!
So what do you say?
There were white apes, yellow apes, black apes, red apes etc?
So do you then believe like the original racist evolutionists that some races were not yet fully evolved?
Remember how evolution made the black man out as a barbaric lower life form.
If you claim whole populations of different apes evolved into humans, do you say:
1. this was all one species?
2. or different spiecies of homonids?
if different species, DNA markers dont agree!
3. If you say one species you will be correct.
4. But then, it is impossible for all the members of one homonid species to have changed into more human, Mit DNA disagrees to such a claim, and there was only one female parent.
5. in this case, who was the male parent?
6. cant be all of the other male from this species, because the gradual changes should also have occured on the male.
7. now we have one male and one female parent.

Whole populations of hominids did not work in evolving into humans.
The whole populations of hominoids needed one male and one female parent!