Again, will you specify the part you are referring to?
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Non-Theist
- Thread starter Nakosis
- Start date
The 1670s are "recent?"
theism | Origin and meaning of theism by Online Etymology Dictionary
I'm glad you agree with me about how the term is used todaym
I know of plenty of religious texts that make a distinction between actively rejecting that religion's god and merely not believing in it; I don't know of any that speak to both atheism and non-theism as if they're different things.
As I said earlier, "non-theist" is just a euphemism for "atheist" that, in its current usage, arose because of stigma around the term "atheist."
You did not answer my question. How about answering it instead of avoiding it.
I've already told you where and how you were using it.
The term theist existed then but that was not its etymology. The general term for believing in any gods didn't arise (and then mostly in Christian dominated English) until the 1800s.
American common use is a sloppy mistress. But it's not how all countries or how all academics use it.
That's not historically accurate nor accurate to how non-theism is used today.
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Atheism was the doctrinal belief in no God. Specifically explicit and specifically God. Not any and all deities. Deists and pantheists were called atheists because they denied, not a supernatural creator, but a personal God with revelation. Which is why you'll find that most dictionaries have two definitions of theism today. One which is belief in any god and one which is a belief in specifically a personal, involved god.
No it wasn't. Do you want to know why you are wrong? Because Christians were called atheists in the Greco/Roman world because they didn't believe in their gods. Or do you want to talk about atheism in Hindu history?
Answer this, if atheist was born into a society that only worship an impersonal creator god and have no knowledge of any other form of god, which god do you think the atheist is referring to?
Fancy that, atheism didn't mean 'believes in no gods' but a particular type of god.
I talked about people who were not atheists being able to do non-theistic practices. I approached the declaration of non-theist = atheist by providing several examples that falsified the claim. (You know, the scientific method?)
LOL! You misstated what I wrote and refused to specify where I supposedly wrote it when asked.
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Obviously, since it's the "lack of belief."
Funny how you don't think a particular type of god is not a god.
No, I didn't. And since you finally admit to doing that, it should be easy for you to see my point. What non-theists do or not do, does not define what they are. Just like for theists, atheists, etc.I talked about people who were not atheists being able to do non-theistic practices. I approached the declaration of non-theist = atheist by providing several examples that falsified the claim. (You know, the scientific method?)
LOL! You misstated what I wrote and refused to specify where I supposedly wrote it when asked.
What term would you use to separate distinctly theistic religious practices such as deity worship from religious practices that are not distinctly theistic, such as jhana practice, mudra practice, mindfulness meditation, etc?
Like I said, their practices is not what makes them an atheist, theist, non-theist, etc.
Again, what term would you use to separate distinctly theistic practices from religious practices that are not distinctly theistic, that anyone (theist or not) can do? (I can tell you a term that is already in use--it's called non-theistic. Theists can do non-theistic practices. Deists would engage in exclusively non-theistic practices. A deist that engages in religious practice would be a practitioner of non-theism. It is part of their belief system, since they believe that god does not care nor intervene. As a practitioner of non theism, they are a non-theist in both belief about practice and in practice, even though they are a deist.
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When was this, exactly?
Hence theistic practices (worship, etc, which require an involved, personal god) and non-theistic (non-worshiping) practices.
I'll try one last time to see if you can grasp the point that not just anything can determine what you are. Anyone can do non-theistic things, even theists, but that's not what defines them as a non-theist. Theism is the belief that a god exist, so since a deist believes that a god exist, doesn't matter what god or what kind of god it is. Since they believe that, that qualifies them as a theist. So as a practitioner of theism, they are cannot be a non-theist. Something that is that simple, yet it's so hard for you to understand.
A deist is not a practitioner of theistic religious practice, as they believe that god does not care and is not involved, so there is no point of worship. That is what makes them a deist. Non-theism is not necessarily about atheistic belief. Non-theistic religious practice simply does not involve worship or anything else that would require god belief. Mindfulness meditations, mudra practice, jhana practice, etc. are examples of non-theistic religious practices. You don't have to be an atheist to do them, however.
I don't see why this is so hard for you to understand.
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You've just proven my point and showed the reason why you are wrong. You are describing the religion, and not the person itself. An atheist and a theist can both have a non-theistic religion, but that's their religion is not what defines them as being a non-theist. Like I said this whole time, you've been defining the religion and not the individual. A theist's belief in the existence of a god is not required in his/her non-theistic religious beliefs because their religion doesn't require it. But a theist's belief in the existence of a god, regardless of what kind of god, is required, otherwise he/she would be an atheist. In other words, he/she is not a theist, hence the prefix, "non -", meaning, "not."
A non-Christian participating in "saying grace" with his/her family at the dinner table doesn't make them a Christian. And a Christian not doing that, doesn't mean that he/she is a non-christian. A Christian practicing yoga or is meditating, doesn't mean that he/she is a non-christian, nor does that make them a Buddhist. A Christian practicing in non-christian biology, doesn't make that person a non-christian. Now replace the word "Christian" with "theist."
That's the same as ......
Non-believer = not (a) believer
Non-religious = not religious
Non-political = not political, aka apolitical
Non-atheist = not (an)atheist, aka, theist
Non-theist = not (a)theist, aka, atheist
Easy concept. Easy to understand.
The OP was about the difference between atheist and non-theist. Atheism is about god belief. Nontheist is more of an umbrella term used to describe both religious practices and beliefs. This is the point I was making. The parameters for each term are different--not the same. Therefore, trying to use them interchangably will run into errors. Generally, you can substitute the term non-theist for atheist and be correct. However, you cannot substitute the term atheist for nontheist and always be correct, as the term nontheist covers a broader range than atheist--extending to a descriptor of religious practices as well as beliefs.
Atheism and theism are about god belief, no more, no less. Atheist and theist, is the person with the belief about god. And more specifically, theism is the belief that a god exist, therefore a theist is a person with that belief. And a non-theist, or not theist, is a person that doesn't have the belief that a god exist. An atheist is a person that doesn't have that belief. No where does non-theist refers to religion.
Whenever "theistic" and "non-theistic" are used with religion, they are describing a religion's belief in regards to a god. It strictly refers to just the religion and not those people who practice the religion. Knowing what the prefix and suffix means and how they effect the "root" word is important. You are using "theism," "theist," and "theistic" interchangeably, when they all have a slightly different meaning from one another.