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"non-denominational" churches

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by SoliDeoGloria, Mar 22, 2005.

  1. Lindsey-Loo

    Lindsey-Loo Steel Magnolia

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    Great! I don't know when I'll be home, I'm visiting family. Check in here every once in a while, and I'll tell you when I've started the new thread.
     
  2. Melody

    Melody Well-Known Member

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    Would you mind quoting that verse? My bible is apparently missing this little gem.
     
  3. BUDDY

    BUDDY User of Aspercreme

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    A think that we all need to step back and look at what the definition of denomination is, and how that definition relates to religion today. When someone says that they attend a religious group that is non-denominational, they are basically saying that the group is autonomous from any other. A denomination means part of a whole, or a member of a larger organization. I would say that the vast majority of religious groups today are denominations because they report to a central office, or church headquarters. The most notable of them being of course Roman Catholic, because they are the largest, but there are plenty of them out there including Lutheran, Presbyterian, Mormon, Southern Baptist and about a dozen other baprtist organizations. There are many more but I won't bore you. The church of Christ is non-denominational because each congregation is autonomous, there is no central church of Christ headquarters. Even within the church of Christ though there can be many different types. There are some referred to as "Anti's" because they do not spend there money on anything not directly related to spreading the word of God (i.e. fellowship halls, bible camps, summer bible schools, orphans home, etc.). The there are some on the other end of the spectrum that have everything including vending machines, basketball courts and picnic areas. I have my own opinion on this, but I will keep it to myself. I have attended congregations in the church of Christ that go from one of these extremes to the other, and I have seen good things in all of them.
     
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  4. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    I appreciate what EEWRED says here, and he is spot on.

    There are no synods or diocese with the church of Christ.

    One of the teachings of the New Testament is that there is only ONE body. Wile GC may come across as less than PC for most of you, she is only expressing her true feelings. You can condemn her for these feelings or try to understand them: your call!
     
  5. Lindsey-Loo

    Lindsey-Loo Steel Magnolia

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    You can be sure that the New Testament churches never spent money from the church treasury to host huge festivals for the whole community. Money from the church treasury is meant for the church.

    I'm about to start the Catholic thread we were talking about earlier. See you there!
     
  6. Melody

    Melody Well-Known Member

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    So, the one baptist church I attend is non-denominational because they are not associated with any baptist organization, nor do they report to a central office. The other is because they are a part of the southern baptist council (?) and report to a regional office. Yes? Ok. Thanks for the clarification and I even had frubals left to give you!
     
  7. Melody

    Melody Well-Known Member

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    I agree....and if the church officials decide that a festival for the whole community is how they want to spend it...either to raise an even greater amount of money to help their causes or just to promote good will in the community, then I'm not sure I see the problem.
     
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  8. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    You can also be sure that the First Century church did not spend money on lights or for sewer or water, yet most churches of Christ have no issue with this. In fact, there is no record that the church even owned property, much less a building to meet in... that does not make it wrong.

    I would suggest that unless the scriptures DENOUNCE the practice of spending money on a festival, that it would be at the discretion of the elders and NOT contrary to scriptures. My church hosts a halloween festival every year!!! Why not? You don't think we can reach out to the lost during a halloween party?

    Colossians 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. NIV

    In fact, I would suggest that holding such a party is exactly what Paul had in mind when he wrote:

    I Corinthians 9:19 Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings. NIV

    Too many Christians draw lines in the sand where God never intended them to be drawn. Jesus did not die to bring us more laws and regulations: in fact he reduced them to just two. Love God and love everyone else. The rest is just details.
     
  9. BUDDY

    BUDDY User of Aspercreme

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    Frubals right back at you Melody.
    I think that the key to understanding the use of church money is in the overall goal of the church. If the underlying goal is to spread the word of God in a positive manner, then I see no reason not to be liberal with the money collected by each congregation. After all, that was the overall goal of the first century church. Many times there have been churches of Christ that forget that missionary work is not always reserved for some far away land that they send money to, but that there is also a need for missionary work in the local community.
     
  10. Robert

    Robert New Member

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    Hey Folks,
    The church of which I am member , known as the church of Christ, is scriptural in origin, name, doctrine, and practce. By "the church of which I am a member,known as the church of Christ," I mean the church with which I stand identified and which practices the truth.
    By "is scriptural", I mean it is in harmony with the sciptures, the word of God.
    By "origin," I mean its beginning.
    By "name", I mean that by which it is called.
    By "doctrine," I mean the teaching for which it stands.
    By "practice", I am referring to that which it does in religion.

    If my making these statements has caused you to have questions , I will be happy to discuss them.
    Robert
     
  11. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    In harmony how?
    The Church of Christ has been around since the Bible? .... or do you mean Christianity in general?
    The phrase "Church of Christ" is in the Bible?
    Thanks in advance for clearing things up.

    Scott
     
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  12. glasgowchick

    glasgowchick Gives Glory to God !!!

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    Hi Scott, As far as I can see there is no references to any church that has been named after any saint, like St mary's, saint pauls, St michaels, or the baptist church ect, Romans 16:16 and depending on translation it says "The Churches of Christ salute you" or mines says "All the Churches of Christ Greet you"...
     
  13. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    You seem to be confused.... we are not talking about individual church buildings.:rolleyes:
    Thank you for this.
     
  14. glasgowchick

    glasgowchick Gives Glory to God !!!

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    Hi Scot, The Church as you will know consists of baptized believers into one Body..that's what I don't understand...there were no named church buildings in the Bible that I know of, it was just congregations of churches..If you look at the seven churches in Revelation, John didn't write to different named buildings,There is only one Church but many congregations and the Church belongs to Christ...So in reality all baptized believers belong to the Church of Christ, So why wear any other name...BTW I like the rolling of the eyes..it made me laugh.
     
  15. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    Just because it's not in the Bible, you don't believe in the next 1,000 years there was no LOGICAL reason to name a church?
    Amen.... I realize that fact.... I pray you will someday too..... you seem to think the WAY I choose to worship is more important than WHAT I worship.... it's not.

    You have made post after post here and never once asked about ME... about my faith.

    Instead, you have chosen to make prideful pronouncements of what is Biblically right and wrong... disguised as religious zeal.....:(

    You see the Roman Catholic Church--------- I see Christ
    You see the Pope------------------------------- I see Christ
    You see the Bible------------------------------- I see Christ
    You see Mary------------------------------------ I see Christ

    .... and on and on and on...... maybe for a second, you could use the opportunity of this forum to get to know a Catholic Christian....... instead of telling us how we are wrong and you are right.

    Just a thought..... glad you liked the smiley,
    Scott
     
  16. glasgowchick

    glasgowchick Gives Glory to God !!!

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  17. Robert

    Robert New Member

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    Hey Folks,
    First of all , My apologies to Scott for not responding faster to your questions. I would like the chance to do that now. Let's look at a few principles first that may help. Luke 8:11 says, "The seed is the word of God." As long as the seed exists, the kingdom has not been destroyed. The wheat kingdom has not been destroyed as long as one seed remains. The same principle applies to the church. Concerning the practice of this church, it must be practicing only what God has taught in His word (the seed). For example , the New Testament church limits the music in worship to singing. "Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord" (Eph. 5:19). If New Testament practice extended beyond that , and included instrumental music in worship, one would have to produce the passage in the New Testament that so states. The church of Christ , the Body of Christ (Col.1:18 ; Eph. 1:22-23 ) is a New Testament church.

    Another example would be the practice of Baptism. The Bible teaches that Baptism is an immersion in water of a penitent believer (Acts 8:36-39 ; 1 Peter 3:21-22 ; Romans 6:3-5)
    There are many things to discuss concerning the practices of the New Testament church , and everyone of those topics should be grounded in the word of God , not in the traditions of men (Matt. 15:9).
    Consider the example of Balaam. Notice in Numbers 22:18 the attitude of Balaam was this "I cannot go beyond the word of my God , to do less or more". Yet in chapter 31:8,16 we find Balaam associated with the Midianites and being slain by Moses and the nation of Israel. He is spoken of in the New testament as a false teacher (Rev. 2:14 ; 2 Peter 2:15 ;Jude 11). So evidently , though Balaam at one time wanted to speak only the word of God , he did not and became wicked.

    Scott , I noticed in your response to glasgowchick you made these statements
    "You see the Roman Catholic Church--------- I see Christ
    You see the Pope------------------------------- I see Christ
    You see the Bible------------------------------- I see Christ
    You see Mary------------------------------------ I see Christ"

    I see four doctrines that are either as Jesus states in Matt. 21:25 , from heaven or from men. I think we can agree that the Bible is from heaven. My question for you Scott would be where in the Bible do we see a "Roman Catolic Church" , or a "Pope". I am assuming that by Mary you mean what is taught by the Roman church concerning her. If so, Is it taught in God's word? Last thought for us in this study. In 1 Tim.4:13-16 the apostle Paul tells Timothy twice to pay attention to doctrine (teaching). We must be of the same mind on this.
    Thanks for you attention,
    Robert
     
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  18. glasgowchick

    glasgowchick Gives Glory to God !!!

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  19. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    the church must possess the following characteristics;
    (1). It must be a Divine Institution
    (2) It must be governed wholly by Divine Authority.
    (3) It should have only the names it had at the beginning.
    (4) It must have the Form of Government given to the Church in the beginning.
    (5) It has the Unity of the Church of the New Testament.

    Perhaps we can discuss these matters further and more in depth. I appreciate your interest and patiences. I am looking forward to your input.
    Peace in Christ
    Robert[/QUOTE]
    I have been a worshiper in many different churches in the past 70 years. I find the basic message they put out is that Jesus Lives. Of course they all emphasise different aspects of the Christian Religion.

    Most of us chose the Church we are comfortable with , whose rituals and practices we agree with.

    Unfortunately nearly all teaching is based around the Books of Paul. Who it is easy to see, was a man of his time with all the attitudes of that time, particularly regarding the place of women and sex generally.

    This has carried over to the present time. To the extent that sin is more related to sex than any thing else. I find many of the non-Denomination Churches especially those that are Fundamental, are prone to preach. A sin based religion rather than a Love base one. But of course this is my own prejudice showing
     
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  20. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    ** moved to debate forum **
    Hello all.... thanks for the replies.

    I really don't care to personally continue this... I don't have a problem with how you folks worship the Lord, and am only saddend that you people feel the need to critisize a faith you obviously know little about.... oh well.... I've invited a few friends to hop on this thread, so I'm sure you'll get a complete reply from them shortly.

    Peace in Christ,
    Scott
     
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