I think the difference between us is that I would say it is good to meditate on what is needful and not ask for it to be done by God. It is up to me to do the things that are needful in my life. I can garner strength from my meditations and the energy of God but I think its hubris to ask God to give me those things. I don;t mean to disrespect your POV Thanda, even a little, its just that in the eastern faiths, our journey is our own and we are the captains of that. If we are to learn from this life, we must be the ones to actually experience these things or we don't learn.
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Non-believer go to hell, who's fault?
- Thread starter Pudding
- Start date
ROFL...nope. I assume you are female as well. But here in this venue, one never knows, eh?
Thanda
Well-Known Member
Thanda
Well-Known Member
cambridge79
Active Member
and this is why i said atheists ( to be fair i should say moderate atheists ) and moderates believers have the interest of walking hand in hand. We don't view the reality in the same way but we can live togheter and we share interests much better than with extremists. I want to see a football match on sunday, another wants to go to church, you want to meditate. Why can't each one do his thing? it's as simple as that.
the enemies are not religions, atheism and so on, the two fronts fighting each others should be moderates of any kind on one side and extremists of any kind on the other side. Moderates usually take into account every opinion and want to share a world where everyone can live according to his own feelings ( in regard of religions secularism is the only possible solution to this ). Extremists of any kind want to shape the world the way they like it to be and the others should adapt ( either it be a theocracy or an atheistic dictatorship ).
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ROFLMBO....talk about getting it all wrong. Mea Culpa Sir. All this time I thought you were a woman. Guess you never know.
Such as? If I am meant to have an experience, the cards will be laid out so that I will. Some good, some not so good, some terrible, such as the rape of my daughter. Can you give me specifics?
I agree with you. The extremists can and are dangerous. Examples are Trump, ISIS, Phelps, etc. They have a right to their views, but they don't have a right to force those beliefs on others, such as Trump wanting to 'label' all Muslims. Makes me think of Hitler and his horrid yellow #$(*@$#(* star. May the fleas of a thousand camels infest his rotting corpse armpits. Or Phelps disrupting funerals and the like of soldiers who were gay or some other thing that goes against his ridiculous views. Those people I agree with you. But how do we stop anyone from having those beliefs? The minute you force someone to think like you, you make those people want to hold even harder to those beliefs. Its my belief that those damn fools are meant to teach the world a lesson, albeit a rather difficult one to stomach.
MARCELLO
Transitioning from male to female
Non believers do not go to hell and there is no hell ,it is just a symbol . Millenniums ago, people needed harsh symbols to learn to walk on right path and the hell concept is political . Unfortunately some uncivilized people (still ) needs the hell concept not to kill or steal. How can you gift an atheist teacher or a doctor with hell?
Thanda
Well-Known Member
Well my very first experiences with prayer was when, as a child, I would pray to God to help me find things that I couldn't. Usually worked like a charm!
I would also pray that my mother didn't hit me when I had done something wrong (this only worked sometimes, for obvious reasons - sometimes you do need a smack
).Asking God to help me know who to go to in order to get something I need. God often communicates back via the Holy Spirit
I tend to feel these experiences remind me that God is real. That he isn't just a giant being who is worried about the macro issues of the universe, but that , as Jesus said he notices when even one hair of our head has fallen. These experiences reminds me that he loves me and that he really is my parent.
cambridge79
Active Member
it's not a simple question you ask there. It's definitely not a thing you do once and you've solved the problem forever, it's a day to day fight because for one Trump you can deal with there will come a new Trump next you'll have to deal with.
And it's not always as easy as it seem: for example, let's assume Trump will be the next U.S. president ( please don't let Trump be the new u.s. president ). Yes that would be a disgrace for anyone who has eyes to see, but that could also lead many people to realize that "ok we had enough, never again something like this should happen". Or it could actually be just bad. Future is unpredictable.
Well my very first experiences with prayer was when, as a child, I would pray to God to help me find things that I couldn't. Usually worked like a charm!
I would also pray that my mother didn't hit me when I had done something wrong (this only worked sometimes, for obvious reasons - sometimes you do need a smack
Asking God to help me know who to go to in order to get something I need. God often communicates back via the Holy Spirit
I tend to feel these experiences remind me that God is real. That he isn't just a giant being who is worried about the macro issues of the universe, but that , as Jesus said he notices when even one hair of our head has fallen. These experiences reminds me that he loves me and that he really is my parent.
Well, I have to say that our views of what God can and cannot do, or rather, I should say may do, is very different. Its my view that I can ask God for the strength to get through various life issues but I don't believe we should ask for direct intervention. How else do we learn from these experiences unless we actually do experience them? And I garner that strength through meditation and keeping my self calm and healthy as I can, albeit though I have RA and struggle with intractable pain and of course, my eye sight. But with this, such as the eye sight, I believe my struggles with that are lent to me to help me 'see' in a different manner or light. I understand asking God not to hit you, as I struggled with being raped by my grandfather as a child. But now, I see that my experience with childhood rape, as tough as that was, to help me with the experiences of my daughter being raped. I could truly relate to her pain and fears. Which helped her because most often, parents have no clue what that entails. Sure, I would have loved to have God intervene but IMO, that is not what God does. On my path to enlightenment, I have lessons to learn and this was just one. I would love to think that God wept with me but I don't 'humanize' God in that manner. I hope this makes some degree of sense.
Agreed but one would have thought that well meaning adults 75 years ago or so would have seen the heinous things that Hitler was doing and stopped the SOB. But all to often, people are too damned complacent to stand up and say no. Example: LePage is the governor of my state....may he rot in hell...and no one will stand up and stop this man. I have written many letters to the editor and written emails to my representatives, etc, to get this man impreached. Yes, there is talk of that but again, all to often people like to remain with the status quo. Despite LePage having said that all heroin dealers are 'black' and impregnate 'young white girls' or when he told Obama to "kiss his ***" and "go to hell". Similarly Trump just this week said one of the things he would do first as president would be to allow concealed weapons around all schools and even in them. Like this country needs more Sandy Hooks to remind us of the horrors of guns and the lack of gun control. Yet, he may be our president. It scares the merde out of me to be honest.
serp777
Well-Known Member
I recognize your point of view as well but personally I want people to be as harsh as possible with my beliefs so that I can improve. Its a good day for me if someone can shatter a misconception or generalization that I just accepted before. I'm not even an atheist either; i'm 100% agnostic--i don't claim to know if God exists or doesn't or which religion is correct or which holy days are sacred, etc. I also don't claim to know the probability that any of these things are true.
I personally find the entire concept of belief in something without proof to be sinister. That kind of thinking leads to suicide bombing, or allows Hitler to assume the Jews are evil and kill them, or it allows stalin and mao to presume religion is the bane of society and thus destroy it indiscriminately. These kind of people know they're right and justified, even though there isn't evidence to backup their claims, and therefore can do anything which would further their goals. They don't really question their beliefs. If only those kinds of people reject faith and demanded strong evidence, the world would be so much better off. Questioning everything has also contributed to every beneficial thing science has ever produced for instance and religion should not be excluded. Accepting things to be true holds people back and ultimately hinders the progress of civilization. It also isn't about what makes sense or what doesn't; that's the argument from credulity or incredulity. Many things in quantum mechanics for instance don't make any sense at all; its because we evolved on the plains of Africa where certain things that made sense to us allowed us to survive better--that doesn't mean sense allows coincides with truth.
cambridge79
Active Member
this is absolutely the most healthy mindset one can decide to adopt, no coincidence that's usually a condamned behaviour in most religions around.
popsthebuilder
Active Member
The only way for a non believer to go to hell is for them to actually have knowledge of GOD and outwardly refute it. Ignorance of GOD from truthful lack of knowledge there of is ignorance, and not weighed against the individual. They are weighed on there outward influence/actions.
Peace
I agree with you Serp however, that said, you will find very few people who wish to have their beliefs challenged as it would cause fear. This is particularly true in the elder populations. And personally, as a nurse in an advanced practice role and furthermore, an elder advocate, I would never do that as this group is nearing death and I would not remove that hope for anything. I mean, really, who does it harm in this group? OTOH, I would stand shoulder to shoulder with you in front of groups like the WBC and that guy from FL...Jones...who wanted to burn all those Qu'rans. Or in front of ISIS if I were not afraid of being beheaded and let's be honest, none of us wants to challenge a belief system that could and would get us killed. As for the holidays, etc, it is my opinion that they all have common roots. Most are pagan in nature, hence we get Christmas and Yule, Easter and Betaine. Etc. Those that claim there is no connection are either deluding themselves or blind to the truth.
I agree with you up to a point. I would not say all of them are sinister. And again, in elders, I would not say their belief is sinister but OTOH, I would say that ISIS and the WBC and so on definitely are. IMO, Trump fits in this group. And the governor of my state...May the fleas of a thousand camels infest his armpits. The trouble here Serp is that people don't want to rattle their little worlds. They would rather continue on oblivious and have no voice. That mindset, IMO, is even more sinister. Rather than stand up and say Trump is the next Hitler, they would rather do nothing at all to disrupt their worlds. I don't know if rejecting belief for strong evidence is the answer. There are plenty of good effects from having faith, and that is particularly true in healthcare. Would you deny a dying person their faith to further your agenda? I sure would not. I agree that questioning in science is not only beneficial but something that must be done. But when it comes to faith, how do we question this? How do we prove or disprove anything when the ultimate answer is that there is no definable proof? How do we question God when God cannot be proven by any current means?