No "I told you so's", please

[Sirona]

Namaste,

my religious community attempts to play the emotional blackmail game with me. "If you don’t wear our clothes you can’t play with us." I’m not a follower kind of person by nature. Still, I’ve been a believer for more than 20 years and attending Hare Krishna temple programs for 10 years. That's quite a lot of time.

Recently, I seem to have attracted their interest because I can translate English well and probably know a little bit about the religion of the Hare Krishnas. I probably should have kept my stupid mouth shut instead. Then they would probably have continued to think I was "stupid" as most people do who go by appearances. Another member of the community, who seemed to be a bit "eccentric", regularly asked for initiation, but never received it. The reasons for this are known only to God.

The Bhagavad Gita (As It Is) does not say to become an ISKCON member (I checked twice ). It does say that one can have a neutral relationship with Krishna (shanta rasa). But the Krishnas lure and nag as a dissatisfied wife might. This is annoying. And possibly my ego plays into it too, because they told me I wouldn't believe “deeply enough” if I didn't join them. I know it’s them who make the rules, not me, but I feel that they don’t have the right to say this.

In the end I know there is nothing I could say or do to change the situation, and they probably believe to save the world through their teaching, but when people have to resort to emotional blackmail to sell their "world-saving teaching", their truth is probably worth much less than I thought. The odd part is that I still believe and this can't be undone within a couple of days.

Feel free to share your thoughts, but remember that for me, this is a delicate situation. Thanks.

 

[Vinayaka]

Tough situation.
It seems to me that sometimes we (as in we bhaktas) forget that the core of our faith is between us and God. I've had many 'run-ins' with the old guard at the temple I attend, and the resolution has almost always been ... "I'm here to serve Ganesha, not the board of trustees." After all, they're people, and He's God."

I don't know if that's helpful to you at all, but hey it's all I got, without knowing more specifics. Best wishes.

 

[The Crimson Universe]

Namaste,

my religious community attempts to play the emotional blackmail game with me. "If you don’t wear our clothes you can’t play with us." I’m not a follower kind of person by nature. Still, I’ve been a believer for more than 20 years and attending Hare Krishna temple programs for 10 years. That's quite a lot of time.

Recently, I seem to have attracted their interest because I can translate English well and probably know a little bit about the religion of the Hare Krishnas. I probably should have kept my stupid mouth shut instead. Then they would probably have continued to think I was "stupid" as most people do who go by appearances. Another member of the community, who seemed to be a bit "eccentric", regularly asked for initiation, but never received it. The reasons for this are known only to God.

The Bhagavad Gita (As It Is) does not say to become an ISKCON member (I checked twice ). It does say that one can have a neutral relationship with Krishna (shanta rasa). But the Krishnas lure and nag as a dissatisfied wife might. This is annoying. And possibly my ego plays into it too, because they told me I wouldn't believe “deeply enough” if I didn't join them. I know it’s them who make the rules, not me, but I feel that they don’t have the right to say this.

In the end I know there is nothing I could say or do to change the situation, and they probably believe to save the world through their teaching, but when people have to resort to emotional blackmail to sell their "world-saving teaching", their truth is probably worth much less than I thought. The odd part is that I still believe and this can't be undone within a couple of days.

Feel free to share your thoughts, but remember that for me, this is a delicate situation. Thanks.

Some of them can be very annoying.

I came in contact with two Hare Krishnas in the last decade. One of them was a monk who wanted me to sit for an exam in order to get me initiated into their group and sent me all the exam papers, even though I wasn't interested.
The other was a teenager who kept nagging me after every few days that I should chant 108 times and that I should have a Guru.
She wanted me to have her Guru's phone number and told me that her Guru is ready to take me under his wing. lol

I had to politely decline the offer.

I mean I wasn't even serious about this group and was only interested in the vedic cosmology (like the various lokas and stuff) that they took from the Puranas and posted in their free online articles.

I think their main goal is to increase their number of followers.

And I don't think its necessary to follow their strict rules just to prove one is a devout Krishna devotee.

You can always have a small Krishna shrine in your home or visit other vaishnava sampradaya temples (if they are near to you). I think those other sampradayas aren't as demanding as the Hare Krishnas are.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Another member of the community, who seemed to be a bit "eccentric", regularly asked for initiation, but never received it. The reasons for this are known only to God.
I know it’s them who make the rules, not me, but I feel that they don’t have the right to say this.
.. but when people have to resort to emotional blackmail to sell their "world-saving teaching", their truth is probably worth much less than I thought. The odd part is that I still believe and this can't be undone within a couple of days.

Why does he or you need initiation? Krishna is always with me. Visiting a Krishna temple or ISKCON is OK. Stop at that and form your own views.
Go by BhagawadGita and SrimadBhagawadPurana. When you have them, you do not need another teacher or initiation.

You can always have a small Krishna shrine in your home or visit other vaishnava sampradaya temples (if they are near to you). I think those other sampradayas aren't as demanding as the Hare Krishnas are.

^^^

 

[Sirona]

I think their main goal is to increase their number of followers.

From what I've learned I have to agree. Better late then never. They probably won't waste their rice and sabji on somebody who doesn't become a Bhagavad Gita thumbing "missionary" of theirs. They made very clear that they are a "missionary" group but judging upon their numbers they probably aren't very successful. At the temple where I attend the meetings, there are maybe two dozens of them despite being located in a city with 600,000 inhabitants.

There also seems to be a certain membership turnover. Some people stop by out of curiosity and then move on. I probably witnessed another case of a "recruit" dodging emotional blackmail as one seemingly interested person suddenly left and never came back without any explanation.

I don't know where I read about it but in that article it was claimed that in the end, they don't have more members now than they used to have in the 1970s. Supposedly, the newly recruited would only fill the ranks of those who left. There are even smaller Gaudiya Vaishnava groups in the wake of Hare Krishna that benefit from disillusioned ISKCON members. In one of them called Pure Bhakti I once met devotional painter Jadurani / Syamarani dasi.

One positive thing I have to say about ISKCON is that in it, I have met some people with charismatic appeal and a certain heightened sensitivity. I must admit that I admired them a little bit. I can hardly explain how these persons were in such a good condition, if the mechanical chanting and indoctrination are really as harmful as is generally claimed.

 

[stvdv]

I can hardly explain how these persons were in such a good condition

Quite a few Narcissists, sociopaths and psychopaths have good health and live long, whereas some really nice, friendly, good, kind-hearted people (even children) die young or have more trouble with health

Hence, "good health" does not necessarily mean "good person"

 

[Aupmanyav]

I can hardly explain how these persons were in such a good condition, if the mechanical chanting and indoctrination are really as harmful as is generally claimed.

Indoctrination is harmful to the mind as it closes mind to all other things, like in case young earthers. It does not affect the body. Mechanical chanting (mantras and japas) have their own psychological benefits for some people, though that is not for me. My preference is for bare-thread discussion, shastrartha, dissection.

 

[Laddu1]

Very sorry to hear about your experience with Iskcon. I can fully relate unfortunately. It is very sad.

I remember one time I was in my local iskcon temple and there was the infamous Devaki mataji sitting in the altar room along with another mataji who has been visiting the temple for decades (she was maybe in her 60s) but was not initiated nor wore saree etc. And Devaki mataji asked her basically why, after all these years, she hasn't stepped up her game so to speak. Like she said "you keep coming here" alluding to her not taking initiation and becoming "more serious". I never really liked Devaki mataji (no hate, just my gut feeling) and expected more from someone who is supposedly oh so advanced in Krishna consciousness. But alas, hare krishnas are judgemental as hell.