No Heaven Until Resurrection..

[Mattithyah]

No Heaven Until Resurrection.. when you die, you're just dead. When it's time for the resurrection, Yahweh will breath new life into you, and reboot your computer parts.

[[[But! Before I get too much farther, I must complain. I'm not a theist, I'm not an atheist, I'm not a Deist, I'm not a ...what was the other one?...Oh, and I'm not an agnostic. According to my definition of God and my Definition of Yahweh, they are two separate beings. I worship Yahweh and do not ever refer to Him as God, Lord, El, Elohim, Adonai, Jehovah, or anything else except Father, Creator, Supreme Ruler sometimes. Theism is the belief in God/god, which I do not. Yahweh is not a God/god, nor is He "The" God. A God, whether you capitalize it or not, is anyone that usurps the authority of Yahweh the Creator.]]]

"For no one is to go up to heaven, but those who are Priests, who walk at the side of Yahweh - those who have succeeded to the calling of the Father from men; that is, the Called Out Ones." - Book of Yahweh

 

[Desert Snake]

Huh?

 

[Desert Snake]

God==JHVH

God means JHVH, the other titles also mean JHVH, unless otherwise specified

 

[Thanda]

when you die, you're just dead.

I'm not sure if you believe in the bible but if you do, the following scriptures contradict your assertion:

Luke 23:43: And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
1 Peter 4:6: For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
Matthew 17:3: And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

 

[Mr. Beebe]

Luke 23:43: And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Thanda, have you considered that the placement of the comma changes the context of Luke 23:43? Please consider this:

"Verily, I say to you,,,,,,,,,TODAY you shall be with Me in paradise." Reading this sentence would lead one to believe that Jesus was assuring the thief next to Him that he would be enjoying Paradise that same day. let's examine it another way:

"Verily I say to you TODAY,,,,,you shall be with Me in paradise." Reading this sentence would lead one to believe that Jesus was making a promise to the thief that in the future the thief would enjoy paradise with Jesus.

We know that Jesus laid in the tomb for 3 days. When He arose,, He told Mary,,, "Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father...." So, there is some evidence that Jesus didn't go anywhere..


1 Peter 4:6 is not evidence that the gospel is preached to people while they are dead. This scripture says the gospel "was" preached to those who "are" dead They are dead now, but the gospel was preached to them while they were still alive.

Matthew 17:3 Elijah & Moses were both seen,, because they are both alive. The Bible tells us that Elijah was taken up in a whirlwind 2 Kings 2:11. The Bible also tells us that God raised Moses from the grave Jude 9.

Elijah & Moses are prototypes:

Elijah represents those Saints who shall be translated without ever seeing death at the Appearance of Jesus

Moses represents those Saints that have died and will be resurrected at the Appearance of Jesus.

Satan shall deceive the world in these last days with the use of sorcery Revelation 18:23.

All who believe the dead are alive shall be deceived by Satan and his master delusions.

 

[atpollard]

Huh?

Yeah, what he said.
Huh??

 

[atpollard]

No Heaven Until Resurrection.. when you die, you're just dead. When it's time for the resurrection, Yahweh will breath new life into you, and reboot your computer parts.

[[[But! Before I get too much farther, I must complain. I'm not a theist, I'm not an atheist, I'm not a Deist, I'm not a ...what was the other one?...Oh, and I'm not an agnostic. According to my definition of God and my Definition of Yahweh, they are two separate beings. I worship Yahweh and do not ever refer to Him as God, Lord, El, Elohim, Adonai, Jehovah, or anything else except Father, Creator, Supreme Ruler sometimes. Theism is the belief in God/god, which I do not. Yahweh is not a God/god, nor is He "The" God. A God, whether you capitalize it or not, is anyone that usurps the authority of Yahweh the Creator.]]]

"For no one is to go up to heaven, but those who are Priests, who walk at the side of Yahweh - those who have succeeded to the calling of the Father from men; that is, the Called Out Ones." - Book of Yahweh

FYI, from Merriam-Webster dictionary:

God
capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as
a : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshiped as creator and ruler of the universe

What you refer to as "Father, Creator, Supreme Ruler" would seem to be the definition of the English word "God" (with a capital G).

 

[Neo Deist]

Thanda, have you considered that the placement of the comma changes the context of Luke 23:43? Please consider this:

"Verily, I say to you,,,,,,,,,TODAY you shall be with Me in paradise." Reading this sentence would lead one to believe that Jesus was assuring the thief next to Him that he would be enjoying Paradise that same day. let's examine it another way:

"Verily I say to you TODAY,,,,,you shall be with Me in paradise." Reading this sentence would lead one to believe that Jesus was making a promise to the thief that in the future the thief would enjoy paradise with Jesus.

We know that Jesus laid in the tomb for 3 days. When He arose,, He told Mary,,, "Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father...." So, there is some evidence that Jesus didn't go anywhere..


1 Peter 4:6 is not evidence that the gospel is preached to people while they are dead. This scripture says the gospel "was" preached to those who "are" dead They are dead now, but the gospel was preached to them while they were still alive.

Matthew 17:3 Elijah & Moses were both seen,, because they are both alive. The Bible tells us that Elijah was taken up in a whirlwind 2 Kings 2:11. The Bible also tells us that God raised Moses from the grave Jude 9.

Elijah & Moses are prototypes:

Elijah represents those Saints who shall be translated without ever seeing death at the Appearance of Jesus

Moses represents those Saints that have died and will be resurrected at the Appearance of Jesus.

Satan shall deceive the world in these last days with the use of sorcery Revelation 18:23.

All who believe the dead are alive shall be deceived by Satan and his master delusions.

You beat me to the comma argument! Koine Greek did not use punctuation marks, so the placement of the comma is a "best guess" in English translations. That placement can alter the meaning of the verse, as you have pointed out.

 

[Thanda]

Thanda, have you considered that the placement of the comma changes the context of Luke 23:43? Please consider this:

"Verily, I say to you,,,,,,,,,TODAY you shall be with Me in paradise." Reading this sentence would lead one to believe that Jesus was assuring the thief next to Him that he would be enjoying Paradise that same day. let's examine it another way:

"Verily I say to you TODAY,,,,,you shall be with Me in paradise." Reading this sentence would lead one to believe that Jesus was making a promise to the thief that in the future the thief would enjoy paradise with Jesus.

We know that Jesus laid in the tomb for 3 days. When He arose,, He told Mary,,, "Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father...." So, there is some evidence that Jesus didn't go anywhere..

That is not evidence that Jesus didn't go anywhere. It is evidence that the paradise where he promised the thief he would be with him is not the same place as heaven (where God the Father lives). This is according to my belief as well. The spirit world is here on earth. When people are resurrected their spirit and bodies reunite and they go to meet God to be judged.

1 Peter 4:6 is not evidence that the gospel is preached to people while they are dead. This scripture says the gospel "was" preached to those who "are" dead They are dead now, but the gospel was preached to them while they were still alive.

You would have a point if it were not for 1 Peter 3:19-20 which gives clear context that they are in fact talking about the gospel being preached to spirits. Clearly people who are alive are not referred to as spirits.

All who believe the dead are alive shall be deceived by Satan and his master delusions.

The fact that we cannot speak to the dead does not mean they do not live in another realm. I have lived all my life believing the dead are alive and have never been close to being deceived by the devil.

 

[Mr. Beebe]

The spirit world is here on earth. When people are resurrected their spirit and bodies reunite and they go to meet God to be judged.

Thanda,, all I can tell you is what the Bible teaches. What is a soul?

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

The Bible teaches that it takes two things to make a living soul. Body + Breath = A Living Soul.

What happens to us when we die? The Bible teaches this:

"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." Ecclesiastes 12:7

The body turns into dust again, and the spirit goes back to God, who gave it. The spirit of every person who dies, whether righteous or wicked returns to God at death.

What is the "spirit" that returns to God at death? The "spirit" that returns to God at death, is nothing more than the breath of life. Nowhere in God's Bible does the "spirit" that returns to God have any wisdom, life, or feeling after a person dies. It is "the breath of life" and nothing more. Consider the following scriptures:

"The body without the spirit (breath) is dead." James 2:26

"The spirit of God (the breath which God gave him) is in my nostrils." Job 27:3

"You take away their spirit (breath), they die and return to their dust.." Psalm 104:29

You would have a point if it were not for 1 Peter 3:19-20 which gives clear context that they are in fact talking about the gospel being preached to spirits. Clearly people who are alive are not referred to as spirits.

Let's examine 1 Peter 3:19,20

Thanda,, the preaching was done, "by the spirit" (verse 18) in Noah's day, to people who were then living (verses 19,20).

The "spirits in prison" refers to people whose lives were in bondage to Satan. Examine the following scriptures:

"Bring my soul out of prison,
that I may praise Your name..." Psalm 142:7

"I, the Lord have called you in righteousness,
And will hold your hand,,,
As a light to the gentiles,
To open blind eyes,
To bring out prisoners from the prison.
Those who sit in darkness from the prison house." Isaiah 42:6,7

"The spirit of the Lord God is upon me,,,,
To proclaim liberty to the captives, and the
opening of the prison to those who are bound." Isaiah 61:1 & Luke 4:18

The fact that we cannot speak to the dead does not mean they do not live in another realm.

What does the Bible say about these things?

"The living know that they shall die, but the dead know not anything, neither have they anymore a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy is now perished. Ecclesiates 9:5,6

"So man lieth down and riseth not: til the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep." Job 14:12

The Bible teaches that the dead know nothing. Examine this scripture about a funeral:

"His sons come to honor him, and he knoweth it not; they are brought low, but he perceiveth it not." Job 14:21

"Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going." Ecclesiastes 9:10

Also,, the Bible says "All that are in their graves shall hear His voice and shall come forth." John 5:28 So,, i don't see the call going out to spirits that are roaming around on the earth as you claimed.

And let's not forget that in Moses' day, God commanded that all who claimed to speak with the dead be stoned. "..they shall stone them with stones." Leviticus 20:27

The Bible says after the death of a person: returns to dust (Psalm 104:29), knows nothing (Ecclesiastes 9:5), possess no mental powers (Psalm 146:4), has nothing to do with anything on earth (Ecclesiastes 9:6), does not live (2 Kings 20:1), waits in the grave (Job 17:13), and continues not (Job 14:1,2)

The Bible says that Satan will deceive the nations with the use of Sorcery...... He has done it before: Exodus 7:11,,1 Samuel 28:3-25: Sorcerers---Daniel 2:2 a certain Damsel---Acts 16:16-18)

All these facts I have presented come from the Bible. That is what the Bible teaches,,,Line upon line, precept upon precept.