• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

New possible source of Green energy:

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Sunlight, under the right conditions, can be use to split water into hydrogen and oxygen. Unfortunately that has been a rather inefficient process so far making it uneconomical. Now a new technology may solve that problem:

Science | AAAS

This new process can currently almost work at the 10% efficiency commonly set as a benchmark to make the process economically viable. There are a few minor problems. One is that it produces a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen. The Hindenburg incident was not a mixture. It was a much safer concentration of almost pure hydrogen. This video has a two to one mixture of hydrogen and oxygen: Jump forward to 4:20 to see just that reaction:


So a small problem, but they think that can be worked out too.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
You have to put energy in to make H2O into 2 H and O. Energy is released when 2 H and O recombine to H2O.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
You have to put energy in to make H2O into 2 H and O. Energy is released when 2 H and O recombine to H2O.
Correct, and this uses sunlight, a source of energy, to directly make hydrogen:

"Call it the greenest of green energies. Scientists have long tried to use just Sun and water to generate energy, a bit like plants do when they photosynthesize. But the process—which involves using sunlight to split water molecules—has been too inefficient to be commercially viable. A new advance may change that.

Previous attempts to use the Sun’s energy to split water molecules have faced multiple problems. The process requires energetic photons to cut the bonds between water’s hydrogen and oxygen atoms. Shorter wave, and thus more energetic, photons from ultraviolet and visible light can accomplish the task. But the Sun’s infrared photons, which comprise roughly 50% of those that reach Earth, aren’t energetic enough."

The article goes into how they are working around this problem. They are trying to hit the ten percent mark consistently. I did not know that they could already hit the 25% mark, There is only one problem:

"
Solar water splitters try to get around this with two strategies. The first, and most efficient, involves using a device called a photoelectrochemical cell (PEC). These are a bit like batteries, with two electrodes dunked in a liquid electrolyte. One electrode acts like a mini–solar cell, absorbing sunlight and using the energy to generate electrical charges. Those charges are then fed to catalysts on the electrodes to split water molecules and generate hydrogen gas at one electrode and oxygen gas at the other.

The best PECs can convert nearly one-quarter of sunlight’s energy into hydrogen fuel. But they require the use of corrosive electrolytes that quickly tear apart the light-absorbing semiconductor.

A second strategy, called a monolithic photocatalytic cell, does away with the batterylike setup and simply dunks a light-absorbing semiconductor in water. The semiconductor absorbs sunlight and generates electrical charges that are fed to catalytic metals on its surface that then split water molecules. But because the resulting hydrogen and oxygen are generated right next to each other, they can readily react with one another, reforming water.

That has limited the efficiency of these photocatalytic water splitters to converting only about 3% of the Sun’s incoming energy into usable hydrogen fuel. One workaround could be to simply make the semiconductors larger, like conventional solar panels. But semiconductors capable of splitting water are far more expensive than standard silicon solar panels, making that option too costly.

So, in the new study, researchers led by Zetian Mi, a chemist at the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, tweaked their photocatalytic equipment. Above their setup they placed a lens about the size of a typical house window. This focused the sunlight to a 100-fold smaller area, allowing them to reduce the size, and cost, of their water-splitting semiconductor. The intense sunlight then generated electrical charges in the semiconductor that were passed to nanosize metal catalysts peppered on top, which then carried out the water-splitting reactions.

Mi’s team also raised the temperature of the water being split to 70°C, which prevented most of the hydrogen and oxygen gases from reacting with one another to reform water. The latest iteration of their device uses not only the visible and ultraviolet photons able to split water, but also the less energetic infrared photons.

The combined changes enabled the scientists to convert 9.2% of the Sun’s energy into hydrogen fuel, roughly three times more than previous photocatalytic setups, they report today in Nature.

“This is quite an accomplishment,” adds Peidong Yang, a chemist at the University of California, Berkeley, whose team helped pioneer photocatalytic water splitting 20 years ago but who was not involved with the current work. Todd Deutsch, a water-splitting expert at the National Renewable Energy Laboratory, adds that the efficiency is now within striking distance of the 10% target likely needed to make these devices commercially viable.

Still, the new setup faces commercial challenges, Deutsch says. It produces a potentially explosive mixture of hydrogen and oxygen gases, for example. A commercial version would have to separate those gases, he notes, adding to the cost."

No magic. About 10% of the energy from sunlight would become what could be a dangerous mixture of oxygen and hydrogen, but they seem to think that can be solved too.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I do wonder though what that means for water consumption. It's an issue now, we don't have enough, and we go through entire lakes already without another demand placed on water.
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I do wonder though what that means for water consumption. It's an issue now, we don't have enough, and we go through entire lakes already without another demand placed on water.
If you read the article it states that sea water could be possibly used. And when hydrogen is used as a fuel it produces water as waste. For example hydrogen powered cars that run on almost the reverse process have to "pee" occasionally.
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
If you read the article it states that sea water could be possibly used. And when hydrogen is used as a fuel it produces water as waste. For example hydrogen powered cars that run on almost the reverse process have to "pee" occasionally.

So does this mean it's also a potential desalinization technology?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
So does this mean it's also a potential desalinization technology?
Probably not. At least not if cars or other mobile devices are using it. And in fact if used at home one would have to burn a lot of hydrogen to get a significant amount of water. The only way that I see enough water being produced to be of use would be in a power plant that consumes vast amounts of hydrogen to make electricity.
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
But what about the dihydrogen oxide it produces?
Enuf of that can kill.

As it happens, I just invented an antidote.

Once this technology takes off I'll be rich!!

(pssst, be sure to order yours now before demand sends the prices sky high).
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
If you read the article it states that sea water could be possibly used. And when hydrogen is used as a fuel it produces water as waste. For example hydrogen powered cars that run on almost the reverse process have to "pee" occasionally.
That doesn't mean it's putting back what it's using. Do they?
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
Sunlight, under the right conditions, can be use to split water into hydrogen and oxygen. Unfortunately that has been a rather inefficient process so far making it uneconomical. Now a new technology may solve that problem:

Science | AAAS

This new process can currently almost work at the 10% efficiency commonly set as a benchmark to make the process economically viable. There are a few minor problems. One is that it produces a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen. The Hindenburg incident was not a mixture. It was a much safer concentration of almost pure hydrogen. This video has a two to one mixture of hydrogen and oxygen: Jump forward to 4:20 to see just that reaction:


So a small problem, but they think that can be worked out too.


Electrolysis has been around forever. Mankind has had the capabilities. It's the will that is lacking.

The sun is a fusion reaction. When that is perfected, the cost of the energy will be so cheap that fossil fuels will become obsolete. There is a bit to get there. On the other hand, even taking baby steps, it's just a matter of time.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Just dilute it with C2H6O but be careful about the quantity of C2H6O.
One has to be careful when buying that. Did you know that manufacturers often mix that with DHMO, in fact most C2H6O is more DHMO than anything else.

EDIT: I know due to personal experience. I recently bought a bottle of C2H6O and it gave me the worst headache. When I read the ingredients I found that it was 60% DHMO and only 40% C2H6O.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
One has to be careful when buying that. Did you know that manufacturers often mix that with DHMO, in fact most C2H6O is more DHMO than anything else.

EDIT: I know due to personal experience. I recently bought a bottle of C2H6O and it gave me the worst headache. When I read the ingredients I found that it was 60% DHMO and only 40% C2H6O.
This is becoming the funniest series of posts ever!!
 
Top