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New discoveries of 'missing links.'

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
One of the challenges by fundamentalist Creationists is that there are 'missing links' which disprove the possibility of the evolution of life. Over the recent history the discoveries of many missing links, and weekly more fossils are being found that build a more complete record of the evilution of life on earth.

The first important discovery was an important link in the evolution of whales. The new discovery was a species of ancient whale that showed the beginnings of the development of a tail fine to propel through water. There are already many species found in the fossil record for the evolution of a land mammal that over recent geologic history to modern whales. Most of these fossils are found in sequence over time in the sediments of the Ancient Indian ocean.

From: New Eocene-Period Whale Unearthed in Egypt | Paleontology | Sci-News.com

New Eocene-Period Whale Unearthed in Egypt

Paleontologists have announced the discovery of a new genus and species of extinct protocetid whale, based on the fossilized remains found in the Western Desert of Egypt. Named Aegicetus gehennae, the ancient animal represents an important step in the evolution of whale locomotion.


An artist’s impression of Basilosaurus isis. Image credit: Pavel Riha / CC BY-SA 3.0.

Protocetidae (protocetids) are a group of semi-aquatic whales known from the middle Eocene epoch of Africa, Asia, North America, and South America.

While living whales use their tails to propel themselves through the water, most protocetids were foot-powered swimmers.

The newly-discovered protocetid, Aegicetus gehennae, was more fully aquatic and less specialized as a foot-powered swimmer than earlier protocetids.

It represents a transitional stage between the foot-powered swimming of early whales and the tail-powered swimming of living whales.

“It is the youngest-known protocetid, dating to around 35 million years ago, and is known from one exceptionally complete skeleton and a partial second specimen, making it among the best-preserved ancient whales,” explained University of Michigan’s Professor Philip Gingerich and colleagues.

Aegicetus gehennae had an estimated body mass of about 900 kg, according to the team.

“Compared with earlier whales, it has a more elongated body and tail, smaller back legs, and lacks a firm connection between the hind legs and the spinal column,” the researchers said.

“These adaptations indicate an animal that was more fully aquatic and less of a foot-powered swimmer than its ancestors.”

Type locality of Aegicetus gehennae in the Wadi Al Hitan World Heritage Site, Egypt. Image credit: Gingerich et al, doi: 10.1371/journal.pone.0225391.

The fossilized bones of two Aegicetus gehennae individuals were collected in 2007 from the Gehannam Formation of Wadi Al Hitan (Valley of Whales), a UNESCO World Heritage Site in the Western Desert of Egypt.

“The body shape of Aegicetus gehennae is similar to that of other ancient whales of its time, such as the famous Basilosaurus,” Professor Gingerich and co-authors said.

“These animals appear to be well-adapted for swimming through undulation of the mid-body and the tail, somewhat as crocodiles swim today.”
 
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nPeace

Veteran Member
Were these fossils not found over a decade ago? What was it then? Where is the article that says the creature is a transitional?
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Were these fossils not found over a decade ago? What was it then? Where is the article that says the creature is a transitional?

When and when the fossil was found is not real important, but documented, and fossils found over the past 150 years are often cataloged in museums and universities and researched at a later date.

I will check and try to provide the original scientific article reference, I believe that the research article cited below referenced many fossils found in recent years to reach its conclusions. The research article provides a detailed illustrations and description of the differnt fossils found for this species.

Checked!

The original scientific article is reference in the article here: Aegicetus gehennae, a new late Eocene protocetid (Cetacea, Archaeoceti) from Wadi Al Hitan, Egypt, and the transition to tail-powered swimming in whales

Aegicetus gehennae, a new late Eocene protocetid (Cetacea, Archaeoceti) from Wadi Al Hitan, Egypt, and the transition to tail-powered swimming in whales

Aegicetus gehennae is a new African protocetid whale based on a partial skull with much of an associated postcranial skeleton. The type specimen, Egyptian Geological Museum, Cairo [CGM] 60584, was found near the base of the early-Priabonian-age (earliest late Eocene) Gehannam Formation of the Wadi Al Hitan World Heritage Site in Egypt. The cranium is distinctive in having ventrally-deflected exoccipitals. The vertebral column is complete from cervical C1 through caudal Ca9, with a vertebral formula of 7:15:4:4:9+, representing, respectively, the number of cervical, thoracic, lumbar, sacral, and caudal vertebrae. CGM 60584 has two more rib-bearing thoracic vertebrae than other known protocetids, and two fewer lumbars. Sacral centra are unfused, and there is no defined auricular surface on the ilium. Thus there was no weight-bearing sacroiliac joint. The sternum is distinctive in being exceptionally broad and flat. The body weight of CGM 60584, a putative male, is estimated to have been about 890 kg in life. Long bones of the fore and hind limbs are shorter than expected for a protocetid of this size. Bones of the manus are similar in length and more robust compared to those of the pes. A log vertebral length profile for CGM 60584 parallels that of middle Eocene Maiacetus inuus through the anterior and middle thorax, but more posterior vertebrae are proportionally longer. Vertebral elongation, loss of a sacroiliac articulation, and hind limb reduction indicate that Aegicetus gehennae was more fully aquatic and less specialized as a foot-powered swimmer than earlier protocetids. It is doubtful that A. gehennae had a tail fluke, and the caudal flattening known for basilosaurids is shorter relative to vertebral column length than flattening associated with a fluke in any modern whale. Late protocetids and basilosaurids had relatively long skeletons, longer than those known earlier and later, and the middle-to-late Eocene transition from foot-powered to tail-powered swimming seemingly involved some form of mid-body-and-tail undulation.
 
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The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
One of the challenges by fundamentalist Creationists is that there are 'missing links' which disprove the possibility of the evolution of life. Over the recent history the discoveries of many missing links, and weekly more fossils are being found that build a more complete record of the evilution of life on earth.

The first important discovery was an important link in the evolution of whales. The new discovery was a species of ancient whale that showed the beginnings of the development of a tail fine to propel through water. There are already many species found in the fossil record for the evolution of a land mammal that over recent geologic history to modern whales. Most of these fossils are found in sequence over time in the sediments of the Ancient Indian ocean.

From: New Eocene-Period Whale Unearthed in Egypt | Paleontology | Sci-News.com

New Eocene-Period Whale Unearthed in Egypt

Paleontologists have announced the discovery of a new genus and species of extinct protocetid whale, based on the fossilized remains found in the Western Desert of Egypt. Named Aegicetus gehennae, the ancient animal represents an important step in the evolution of whale locomotion.


An artist’s impression of Basilosaurus isis. Image credit: Pavel Riha / CC BY-SA 3.0.

Protocetidae (protocetids) are a group of semi-aquatic whales known from the middle Eocene epoch of Africa, Asia, North America, and South America.

While living whales use their tails to propel themselves through the water, most protocetids were foot-powered swimmers.

The newly-discovered protocetid, Aegicetus gehennae, was more fully aquatic and less specialized as a foot-powered swimmer than earlier protocetids.

It represents a transitional stage between the foot-powered swimming of early whales and the tail-powered swimming of living whales.

“It is the youngest-known protocetid, dating to around 35 million years ago, and is known from one exceptionally complete skeleton and a partial second specimen, making it among the best-preserved ancient whales,” explained University of Michigan’s Professor Philip Gingerich and colleagues.

Aegicetus gehennae had an estimated body mass of about 900 kg, according to the team.

“Compared with earlier whales, it has a more elongated body and tail, smaller back legs, and lacks a firm connection between the hind legs and the spinal column,” the researchers said.

“These adaptations indicate an animal that was more fully aquatic and less of a foot-powered swimmer than its ancestors.”

Type locality of Aegicetus gehennae in the Wadi Al Hitan World Heritage Site, Egypt. Image credit: Gingerich et al, doi: 10.1371/journal.pone.0225391.

The fossilized bones of two Aegicetus gehennae individuals were collected in 2007 from the Gehannam Formation of Wadi Al Hitan (Valley of Whales), a UNESCO World Heritage Site in the Western Desert of Egypt.

“The body shape of Aegicetus gehennae is similar to that of other ancient whales of its time, such as the famous Basilosaurus,” Professor Gingerich and co-authors said.

“These animals appear to be well-adapted for swimming through undulation of the mid-body and the tail, somewhat as crocodiles swim today.”

There is no such thing as a "missing link", regardless of what gaps in the tree they think there are.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-fossil-fallacy/
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
There is no such thing as a "missing link", regardless of what gaps in the tree they think there are.
The Fossil Fallacy

True. but addressing the objections by the fundamentalist Christians using their terminology to project objection to evolution..

The reality of the nature of the history of life even the concept of species is questionable, where species are described at a given point in time, but evolution is not a stair step progression of one species to another. It is a change in genetic diversity of populations over time in response to the environment and environmental change, which are described as species, subspecies and related variations,

Yes, as the science of evolution progresses we discover the fossils which are representatives of evolution in the diversity of populations over time.
 

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
True. but addressing the objections by the fundamentalist Christians using their terminology to project objection to evolution..

The reality of the nature of the history of life even the concept of species is questionable, where species are described at a given point in time, but evolution is not a stair step progression of one species to another. It is a change in genetic diversity of populations over time in response to the environment and environmental change, which are described as species, subspecies and related variations,

Yes, as the science of evolution progresses we discover the fossils which are representatives of evolution in the diversity of populations over time.

The concept of Species is not ill-defined. A "Species" is defined as being members of a group who can sexually reproduce and create viable offspring. Nothing more or less. Viable offspring being key.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
The concept of Species is not ill-defined. A "Species" is defined as being members of a group who can sexually reproduce and create viable offspring. Nothing more or less. Viable offspring being key.

No, species only maybe works at any point in time. Even animals defined as species now can cross with related species and have viable offspring.

Example: Coywolves

From: Coywolf - Wikipedia

Coywolf (sometimes called woyote) is an informal term for a canid hybrid descended from coyotes, eastern wolves and gray wolves. All members of the genus Canis are genetically closely related because their chromosomes number 78, therefore they can interbreed.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I think the problem may be that creationists do not understand the concept of a transitional fossil. From the Wiki article on them:

A transitional fossil is any fossilized remains of a life form that exhibits traits common to both an ancestral group and its derived descendant group.[1] This is especially important where the descendant group is sharply differentiated by gross anatomy and mode of living from the ancestral group. These fossils serve as a reminder that taxonomic divisions are human constructs that have been imposed in hindsight on a continuum of variation. Because of the incompleteness of the fossil record, there is usually no way to know exactly how close a transitional fossil is to the point of divergence. Therefore, it cannot be assumed that transitional fossils are direct ancestors of more recent groups, though they are frequently used as models for such ancestors.[2]

Take Pakicetus, Basilosaurus, and the modern whale. They all have a whale's ear, among other traits, Pakucetus is clearly four limbed, basilosaurus is four limbed with family fins, and modern whale only has fins. Basilosaurus has traits of both modern whales and Pakicetus.
 

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
No, species only maybe works at any point in time. Even animals defined as species now can cross with related species and have viable offspring.

Example: Coywolves

From: Coywolf - Wikipedia

Coywolf (sometimes called woyote) is an informal term for a canid hybrid descended from coyotes, eastern wolves and gray wolves. All members of the genus Canis are genetically closely related because their chromosomes number 78, therefore they can interbreed.

Yes, and homo sapien, interbred with homo neanderthalensis, as that population ( H. Neander) declined due to our induced competitive exclusion. Same thing happened with the coyote and Wolf of the American east, when settlers hunted the wolves of the east to near extinction. These are exceptions, and not the norm. But yes, it can sometimes be fuzzy. Nothing is quite as clear cut as most people would like, I'm fond of the ambiguity, personally.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Yes, and homo sapien, interbred with homo neanderthalensis, as that population ( H. Neander) declined due to our induced competitive exclusion. Same thing happened with the coyote and Wolf of the American east, when settlers hunted the wolves of the east to near extinction. These are exceptions, and not the norm. But yes, it can sometimes be fuzzy. Nothing is quite as clear cut as most people would like, I'm fond of the ambiguity, personally.

No, not exceptions, and there are many examples, and enough to demonstrate it is the norm over time populations evolve, and not species.

Actually the present evidence involves more than Neanderthalensis and Denisovans. in the evolution of humans going back to the many subspecies and varieties of Australopithecus and before. The increasing amount of diversity of human ancestors indicates the evolution is through the populations and not specific defined species.
 
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Skwim

Veteran Member
There is no such thing as a "missing link", regardless of what gaps in the tree they think there are.
The Fossil Fallacy
The remark by Herbert Spencer from your linked article is right on the mark.

"Nineteenth-century English social scientist Herbert Spencer made this prescient observation: 'Those who cavalierly reject the Theory of Evolution, as not adequately supported by facts, seem quite to forget that their own theory is supported by no facts at all.' Well over a century later nothing has changed."

.
 
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firedragon

Veteran Member
One of the challenges by fundamentalist Creationists is that there are 'missing links' which disprove the possibility of the evolution of life. Over the recent history the discoveries of many missing links, and weekly more fossils are being found that build a more complete record of the evilution of life on earth.

The first important discovery was an important link in the evolution of whales. The new discovery was a species of ancient whale that showed the beginnings of the development of a tail fine to propel through water. There are already many species found in the fossil record for the evolution of a land mammal that over recent geologic history to modern whales. Most of these fossils are found in sequence over time in the sediments of the Ancient Indian ocean.

From: New Eocene-Period Whale Unearthed in Egypt | Paleontology | Sci-News.com

New Eocene-Period Whale Unearthed in Egypt

Paleontologists have announced the discovery of a new genus and species of extinct protocetid whale, based on the fossilized remains found in the Western Desert of Egypt. Named Aegicetus gehennae, the ancient animal represents an important step in the evolution of whale locomotion.


An artist’s impression of Basilosaurus isis. Image credit: Pavel Riha / CC BY-SA 3.0.

Protocetidae (protocetids) are a group of semi-aquatic whales known from the middle Eocene epoch of Africa, Asia, North America, and South America.

While living whales use their tails to propel themselves through the water, most protocetids were foot-powered swimmers.

The newly-discovered protocetid, Aegicetus gehennae, was more fully aquatic and less specialized as a foot-powered swimmer than earlier protocetids.

It represents a transitional stage between the foot-powered swimming of early whales and the tail-powered swimming of living whales.

“It is the youngest-known protocetid, dating to around 35 million years ago, and is known from one exceptionally complete skeleton and a partial second specimen, making it among the best-preserved ancient whales,” explained University of Michigan’s Professor Philip Gingerich and colleagues.

Aegicetus gehennae had an estimated body mass of about 900 kg, according to the team.

“Compared with earlier whales, it has a more elongated body and tail, smaller back legs, and lacks a firm connection between the hind legs and the spinal column,” the researchers said.

“These adaptations indicate an animal that was more fully aquatic and less of a foot-powered swimmer than its ancestors.”

Type locality of Aegicetus gehennae in the Wadi Al Hitan World Heritage Site, Egypt. Image credit: Gingerich et al, doi: 10.1371/journal.pone.0225391.

The fossilized bones of two Aegicetus gehennae individuals were collected in 2007 from the Gehannam Formation of Wadi Al Hitan (Valley of Whales), a UNESCO World Heritage Site in the Western Desert of Egypt.

“The body shape of Aegicetus gehennae is similar to that of other ancient whales of its time, such as the famous Basilosaurus,” Professor Gingerich and co-authors said.

“These animals appear to be well-adapted for swimming through undulation of the mid-body and the tail, somewhat as crocodiles swim today.”

What happens when creationists believe evolution is fact?
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Those people are known as apologists. 'Evolution is true but God made it happen'.
'Heads, I win; tails, then also I win'.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
What happens when creationists believe evolution is fact?

WHOA HOLD ON A MINUTE.png


.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Fossils Are Filling Out the Human Family Tree

Fossils Are Filling Out the Human Family Tree

The more fossils we find, the more we learn that many kinds of humans have lived on Earth.



10ANCIENT-HUMANS-neanderthal2-articleLarge.jpg


A reconstructed Neanderthal skeleton, right, and a modern Homo sapiens skeleton, left.Credit...Frank Franklin II/Associated Press

By Nicholas St.

FleurHomo sapiens is a pretty impressive species. We built the pyramids, landed on the moon and connected the internet. All of our successes are the fortunate result of a tremendous evolutionary journey from ape to the hominins who would become modern humans.

Along the way, other human relatives emerged and disappeared. Most lived before we did; some of the more recent ones met up with our species before going extinct, for reasons that are still mysterious to scientists.

On Wednesday, researchers welcomed the newest long-gone relative: Homo luzonensis. Here’s a quick guide to some of the other archaic humans that filled out the branches on our evolutionary tree, and what we have learned from them.
 
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