New creation...born again

[shunyadragon]

I'm not sure what you're saying here.

It should not be that confusing, read again, and realize fatalism narrows the path, and is a fallible human construct of how things must be.

 

[Sleeppy]

Fatalism, the positive view of death, and the views of destiny and actions being determined in advance...really appeals to me these days...

Right.

If we move away from self-righteousness, we have less prisons and more schools and rehabilitation centers. That's just one implication. We eradicate the poor. Another implication. Etc.

 

[Spiderman]

it's called .....stroke

blinding light
unconsciousness
loss of sight (rarely regained)
change of personality

whole new outlook on life
and purpose

of course the name change is a MARK
he truly was not the same person he was before

Under those circumstances, I would welcome a stroke

 

[Sleeppy]

It should not be that confusing, read again, and realize fatalism narrows the path, and is a fallible human construct of how things must be.

Fatalism isn't concerned with how things 'must' be, but with how things are.

 

[Thief]

consider the word......born
past tense

no one enters this world other than the flesh of a woman
(Eve herself .....the one exception)
and we are delivered into the arms of someone who cares

the next life requires a Mentor
you will not survive without such help

He might not care
you might be no more than an assignment
He must bear ......you

it behooves any of us.....to follow that Mentor
as instructed

the instruction we have in this life is debatable....
and here we are

instruction in the next life is greater and more demanding
( I have no doubt of it)

 

[Thief]

Under those circumstances, I would welcome a stroke

be careful what you ask for....

 

[Aiviu]

I have experienced change and the power of faith and prayer, and seen it in others.

But I've lost faith that being born again or becoming a new creation, (as is promised by so many christians) is possible for myself and a lot of the people I meet regularly.

There are simply people that have faults that God is about as likely to remove as he is going to give an amputee a new limb.

It just doesn't seem to happen, so one starts to lose faith that it ever will.

I've found and maintain sobriety and obey the law. God seems to assist people with that, and you will hear many positive testimonies in that department.

But many of the faults, confusion, weaknesses, and human miseries persist.

It seems to be part of the cross we are called to carry daily. Sometimes, you just got to suffer on the cross and offer it up as a sacrifice and penance...

I used to think that there would eventually be an infilling of the Holy Spirit, where suddenly I had the mind of God or Christ, and the spirit of God inspires thoughts, words, and deeds, maybe even eventually heal, prophecy, speak for God, or work miracles...

...But have had a reality check in that department, and realized that isn't a realistic expectation or hope.

I try to remember what happened to Paul on the way to Damascus, the vision that blinded him and knocked him off his horse, the change, his total conversion and transformation, but how often does that happen to people?

Not even 1%...so, kinda pointless to be hoping for some grace that is so rarely granted...

Thoughts?

You cant possess anything. You cant possess a trust. You can give it voluntarily. Of course not for a reason that serves only yourself.

I know i will die, but i dont want to die. I only will be alive if I accept my judgement (death) and pass the breath of life i had been given, to someone else who takes it while my given time. If i think i havn't been given the breath of life i probably never had found it. And I probably would had not found it if i'd never had seeked for it in others.

Not even the knowing about that something exists will bring you there. Wisdom is also more like that you've learnt you should had done things differently.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I have experienced change and the power of faith and prayer, and seen it in others.

But I've lost faith that being born again or becoming a new creation, (as is promised by so many christians) is possible for myself and a lot of the people I meet regularly.

There are simply people that have faults that God is about as likely to remove as he is going to give an amputee a new limb.

It just doesn't seem to happen, so one starts to lose faith that it ever will.

I've found and maintain sobriety and obey the law. God seems to assist people with that, and you will hear many positive testimonies in that department.

But many of the faults, confusion, weaknesses, and human miseries persist.

It seems to be part of the cross we are called to carry daily. Sometimes, you just got to suffer on the cross and offer it up as a sacrifice and penance...

I used to think that there would eventually be an infilling of the Holy Spirit, where suddenly I had the mind of God or Christ, and the spirit of God inspires thoughts, words, and deeds, maybe even eventually heal, prophecy, speak for God, or work miracles...

...But have had a reality check in that department, and realized that isn't a realistic expectation or hope.

I try to remember what happened to Paul on the way to Damascus, the vision that blinded him and knocked him off his horse, the change, his total conversion and transformation, but how often does that happen to people?

Not even 1%...so, kinda pointless to be hoping for some grace that is so rarely granted...

Thoughts?

I think that one should not wait to be knocked off one's horse. Paul had to suffer a bit, starting with being knocked to the ground.

I believe in free will, one can trust Christ in my opinion instead of waiting to be struck by lightning.

 

[robocop (actually)]

I have experienced change and the power of faith and prayer, and seen it in others.

But I've lost faith that being born again or becoming a new creation, (as is promised by so many christians) is possible for myself and a lot of the people I meet regularly.

There are simply people that have faults that God is about as likely to remove as he is going to give an amputee a new limb.

It just doesn't seem to happen, so one starts to lose faith that it ever will.

I've found and maintain sobriety and obey the law. God seems to assist people with that, and you will hear many positive testimonies in that department.

But many of the faults, confusion, weaknesses, and human miseries persist.

It seems to be part of the cross we are called to carry daily. Sometimes, you just got to suffer on the cross and offer it up as a sacrifice and penance...

I used to think that there would eventually be an infilling of the Holy Spirit, where suddenly I had the mind of God or Christ, and the spirit of God inspires thoughts, words, and deeds, maybe even eventually heal, prophecy, speak for God, or work miracles...

...But have had a reality check in that department, and realized that isn't a realistic expectation or hope.

I try to remember what happened to Paul on the way to Damascus, the vision that blinded him and knocked him off his horse, the change, his total conversion and transformation, but how often does that happen to people?

Not even 1%...so, kinda pointless to be hoping for some grace that is so rarely granted...

Thoughts?

I stopped masturbating and looking at pornography, and now I'm switching from Raelism to Mormonism!

 

[Spiderman]

I stopped masturbating and looking at pornography, and now I'm switching from Raelism to Mormonism!

Congrats on no porn or masturbation...I've kicked the porn but still have a fap now and then when tension builds

If Mormonism is anything like it was in my dreams where I was Mormon, sounds like quite the spirituality and social club to belong to

 

[shunyadragon]

Right.

If we move away from self-righteousness, we have less prisons and more schools and rehabilitation centers. That's just one implication. We eradicate the poor. Another implication. Etc.

. . . and eliminate human nature. What you propose is a future of human programmed automatons.

 

[shunyadragon]

Congrats on no porn or masturbation...I've kicked the porn but still have a fap now and then when tension builds

If Mormonism is anything like it was in my dreams where I was Mormon, sounds like quite the spirituality and social club to belong to

The other problem with ancient world views is they suppress the nature human nature.

 

[Spiderman]

The other problem with ancient world views is they suppress the nature human nature.

I like tea and coffee too much to be a Mormon.

 

[Ponder This]

I have experienced change and the power of faith and prayer, and seen it in others.

But I've lost faith that being born again or becoming a new creation, (as is promised by so many christians) is possible for myself and a lot of the people I meet regularly.

There are simply people that have faults that God is about as likely to remove as he is going to give an amputee a new limb.

It just doesn't seem to happen, so one starts to lose faith that it ever will.

I've found and maintain sobriety and obey the law. God seems to assist people with that, and you will hear many positive testimonies in that department.

But many of the faults, confusion, weaknesses, and human miseries persist.

It seems to be part of the cross we are called to carry daily. Sometimes, you just got to suffer on the cross and offer it up as a sacrifice and penance...

I used to think that there would eventually be an infilling of the Holy Spirit, where suddenly I had the mind of God or Christ, and the spirit of God inspires thoughts, words, and deeds, maybe even eventually heal, prophecy, speak for God, or work miracles...

...But have had a reality check in that department, and realized that isn't a realistic expectation or hope.

I try to remember what happened to Paul on the way to Damascus, the vision that blinded him and knocked him off his horse, the change, his total conversion and transformation, but how often does that happen to people?

Not even 1%...so, kinda pointless to be hoping for some grace that is so rarely granted...

Thoughts?

Some people desire to be the center of attention for great things, for miracles and for power. Satan comes along and says something like this: if you have faith, you can find God... if you cut off your arm, surely he will restore it ten-fold. And a person thinks: that sounds like a good deal! He takes an axe and cuts off his arm. Then Satan comes long and says: you didn't have enough faith, you should cut off a leg too, just to be sure. And a person thinks: a leg and an arm to find greatness and miracles? Let's do this! And so it goes... Soon he has no arms, no legs, and is cursing God. "I gave everything for you, but there are no miracles. No great powers. Where is my reward?"
God will ask: for whom did you give your arm and your leg?

 

[shunyadragon]

I like tea and coffee too much to be a Mormon.

. . . and odd when I lived in China I met a number of Mormons working for Coca-Cola.

 

[Sleeppy]

. . . and eliminate human nature. What you propose is a future of human programmed automatons.

It's impossible to eliminate human nature, without first eliminating human beings. You don't understand that?

What is DNA? Your DNA is your programming. DNA isn't something I just invented.

 

[shunyadragon]

It's impossible to eliminate human nature, without first eliminating human beings. You don't understand that?

What is DNA? Your DNA is your programming.

I do not consider DNA programming in the sense that DNA determined mechanically our nature like a computer. There is objective verifiable evidence that we and all life evolves and changes over time, and DNA has a malable nature.

Nonetheless what you propose was idealistic and unrealistic.

 

[Sleeppy]

I do not consider DNA programming in the sense that DNA determined mechanically our nature like a computer.

Nonetheless what you propose was idealistic and unrealistic.

Do some research. You didn't spontaneously form. Your DNA determined the 'whats' and 'hows' of your formation, in relation to external stimuli, i.e. the Earth. -- Computers were created to mimic and exceed our abilities. They aren't some alien creation.

I didn't propose those things, except as implications of fatalism. We don't know what is realistic, until it occurs. In my experience with fatalism, those ideals are realistic, in that I practice them.

When you are accepting of human nature, you study it. Correct? Scientific and psychological studies tell us that education and certain methods of rehabilitation are effective. They tell us that prisons are effective in recidivism. These are verifiable now.

Likewise, we know that the Earth has sufficient resources and energy to sustain the human population. Adherence to fatalism acknowledges the current reality, but also discourages any ideology which favors self-righteousness, i.e. unnecessary competition for resources.

 

[Katzpur]

. . . and odd when I lived in China I met a number of Mormons working for Coca-Cola.

There's nothing at all odd about that. There are no prohibitions against drinking Coke, and certainly none against working for Coca-Cola.

 

[shunyadragon]

Do some research. You didn't spontaneously form. Your DNA determined the 'whats' and 'hows' of your formation, in relation to external stimuli, i.e. the Earth. -- Computers were created to mimic and exceed our abilities. They aren't some alien creation.

I didn't propose those things, except as implications of fatalism. We don't know what is realistic, until it occurs. In my experience with fatalism, those ideals are realistic, in that I practice them.

You describe your self as a fatalist and a Christian. My response addressed your post and how you describe your belief. Back up and read again.

When you are accepting of human nature, you study it. Correct? Scientific and psychological studies tell us that education and certain methods of rehabilitation are effective. They tell us that prisons are effective in recidivism. These are verifiable now.

Likewise, we know that the Earth has sufficient resources and energy to sustain the human population. Adherence to fatalism acknowledges the current reality, but also discourages any ideology which favors self-righteousness, i.e. unnecessary competition for resources.

I disagree on the belief in fatalism, the implications, and that is probably where the fundamental disagreement lies.