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near death experiences

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by glasgowchick, Oct 6, 2005.

  1. glasgowchick

    glasgowchick Gives Glory to God !!!

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    Hi Ryan can't find the one I was talking about just yet but what are your thoughts on this one..According to Dr. Jansen, ketamine can reproduce all the main features of the NDE, including travel through a dark tunnel into the light, the feeling that one is dead, communing with God, hallucinations, out-of-body experiences, strange noises, etc. This does not prove that there is no life after death, but it does prove that an NDE is not proof of an afterlife.

    While neural activity might explain bright lights, buzzing noises, and hallucinations, there are some aspects of some NDEs that still remain puzzling. Some people who are thought to be dead, but are actually just unconscious, recover and remember things like looking down and seeing their own bodies being worked on by doctors and nurses. They recall conversations being held while they were "dead." Of course, they weren't dead at all, but they feel as if their mind or soul had left their body and was observing it from above. Those who have had such experiences--and they are many--often find them life-altering and defining moments. They are convinced such experiences are proof of life after death by a disembodied consciousness. But are they? It is possible that a person may appear dead to our senses or our scientific equipment but still be perceiving. The visual and auditory perceptions occurring while unconscious-but-perceiving may be produced by a variety of neuronal mechanisms. It is possible that the soul leaves the body, but it is not necessary to posit a soul to explain these experiences. In any case,

    we do not yet know whether NDEs take place just before the crisis, during it, just after it or even during the process of trying to describe it to someone else. If clear consciousness were really possible with a completely flat EEG, this would indeed change our view of the mind/brain relationship, but so far this has not been conclusively demonstrated (Blackmore 2004: 364).
     
  2. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Don't fret Jackie! from the sounds of it, your father did have a ND experience; I have gone through a few ops myself - infact one whilst having a tooth pulled out (The dentist used Gas on me). I remember 'dreaming' whilst 'under'; when I woke up, I tlod the dentist, and he explained what I had dreamed was because of the gas; but no way would I claim that it was a ND experience.

    What you have described sounds remarkably like one.;)
     
  3. glasgowchick

    glasgowchick Gives Glory to God !!!

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    Hi Michel and thanks, yes my dad remembered that experience so clearly. He actually had gone into hospital to get his appendix removed and during the op they unknowingly punctured is bowel, after they stiched him back up and took him to intensive care because of chest problems, Im not sure exactly how long after the op that this happened wether it be a day or two, but My mum went up to see him and his stomache was like a balloon, when my mum inquired about it they put it down to fluid or something, but it was during that time my dad had that experience, later on that night when my mum went back up to see Him he was already back down in the theatre, thats when they discovered they had punctured his bowel, He did have a bad chest and they couldn't put him back under so he was left with a bag on his side..And with my mum, her experience happened after she got home from the dentist where she was also given gas..
     
  4. Ryan2065

    Ryan2065 Well-Known Member

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    Sir William Barrett-Professor of Physics... Yes, his work on Near Death Experiences is revolutionary! He lived from 1844 to 1925, when they knew all the advanced stuff that we currently know about the brain... So obviously this professor of physics would be the one to go to when you want to find out information about your brain... Forget going to someone with a recent study or anything!

    Dr Karlis Osis did his studies until the early 80's. Now at least he has done a study in the past 30 yeras, but then agian, its not like he has the most advanced studies.

    I cannot find much on Charles Hampton, from what I did find it seems like he is just a person who had a NDE and is re-telling what happened?

    Here are some more recent studies, oddly enough, most recent studies do not say that NDE's are really spiritual and they are just brain related.
    http://www.springerlink.com/(g0fngk3stlhgtqjryy5eqe55)/app/home/contribution.asp?referrer=parent&backto=issue,5,8;journal,15,23;linkingpublicationresults,1:405586,1
    This is just the abstract, but from it...
    The University of Arizona did a study on people who have gone through near death experiences in 2003 and found that people who went through near death experiences seemed to have more temporal lobe epileptiform electroencephalographic activity than the control group and they also reported significantly more temporal lobe epileptic symptoms.

    So there are two more recent studies done on NDE's. Hope you find them interesting.
     
  5. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    And here is one dated 2004 which substatiates them - It took me 30 secs to find a site......http://www.crystalinks.com/neardeath.html;)
     
  6. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    My NDE happened when I was about 7 or 8 years old. I was in a wave pool filled with intertubes. I fell off mine, I couldn't get up to the surface because of all the other intertubes. After what seemed an eternity, and seeing a "light tunnel" type thing, some black guy pulled me out. I could never be racist towards blacks after that, no matter how much my peers and co-workers are. I also had a hard time going back into wave pools until just a couple years ago.
     
  7. glasgowchick

    glasgowchick Gives Glory to God !!!

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  8. glasgowchick

    glasgowchick Gives Glory to God !!!

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    Thanks michel for the website, I tried to have a look but page could not be found..I will retype the link... :)
     
  9. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Strange, Jackie, I pasted the link and it didn't work either; but going through the main website did get me there;


    http://www.crystalinks.com/neardeath.html:)

    Edit :- Yes, the above works (I think you got an extra semi-colon after the url included by mistake - most likely mine.
    2nd edit - yes, it was my fault; sorry!;)
     
  10. glasgowchick

    glasgowchick Gives Glory to God !!!

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    Hi Michel I got into the website this time, here is a bit taken from it that I found interesting..

    Scientists investigating 'near-death' experiences say they have found evidence to suggest that consciousness can continue to exist after the brain has ceased to function...Makes me wonder even more now..I mean I know there is argument for both accounts [ for and against NDE ] But surely all these people can't be wrong, you know the ones that have had NDE's, I am going to have a good look around that site, I was looking at the dreams aswell, do you think a NDE, is the same as an OBE ?..thanks again..
     
  11. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Not far from each other actually.

    The trouble is that you might not 'approve' of these theories, but since you have asked........:D
    Quote:-
    Ecclesiastes 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.

    From:http://www.easyenglish.info/tee/ecc-taw.htm

    We do not know who wrote Ecclesiastes. Its writer was certainly a very *wise man. He calls himself ‘the Teacher’. The Teacher said some strange things. This is the reason. Many people do not know about God. So they try to find reasons for all the things that happen. But they cannot find reasons. The Teacher tells us what these people think. Sometimes people do things that have no purpose. He says that this is like somebody who tries to catch the wind. He means that it is very silly. The Teacher tells us how these people think. He does this when he uses the words ‘on the earth’. These people find that life on the earth has no purpose.
    The Teacher uses the words *wise and *wisdom many times. In the Word List, we can read what these words mean. Often people who do not know God try to be *wise. But if you want to be really *wise, you need to know God. The Teacher wants us to know God. And he wants us to believe God. Also, he wants us to obey God. He wants us to enjoy the good things that God has given to us. We will still have questions about our life on the earth. Some of them are questions that nobody can answer. But God will be with us during our lives. One day each of us will die. The Teacher is not sure what will happen then. He says, 'Our *spirits will return to God' (Ecclesiastes 12:7). In the *New Testament, we learn what else will happen.


    That particular quote from Ecclesiastes deals with old age, and death.
    Note "Or ever the silver cord be loosed" - there are some who would advocate that our Souls are 'connected' to our physical bodies by this invisible 'Silver cord'.

    Out of Body Experiences are those when someone has learned the art od Astral projection (usually during Meditation, or sleep) - I personally have never achieved this - the belief is that your consciousness manages to be 'aware' of what is going on at this time of sleep. The Soul is supposed to be able to travel - joined to the body by this 'silver cord'. On waking, the Soul returns to the body because of the connection.

    At times of Near Death experiences, the same is happening; the Soul actually prepares to leave the body, which it would do in death - and the connection via the silver cord becomes tenuous; when that breaks, there is no return to the Body.

    There are recorded instances of people who claim to have been at the point of death (heart failure on an operating table is a common one), and the Soul prepares to leave the body; for some reason, the death does not occur (I have read claims by some that they simply 'refused'to die - and were able to 'stand' in the air, looking at their own bodies.

    So there is your explanation - if you are prepared to accept it; Near Death Experience is when the Soul prpares to leave the body after death; if, for some reason, the body comes back to life, the silver cord remains intact, and the Soul returns to the physical body. Out of body experience is where someone has trained him/her self to allow the Soul to 'travel' (while still connected to the body). Both experiences are therefore rather similar.
     
  12. glasgowchick

    glasgowchick Gives Glory to God !!!

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    "WOW" Thankyou Michel, that was excellent reading and yes I could accept that..It makes it less frightening to die LOL!!!!!!!!! Did you see this also In astral projection you remain attached to your physical body by a silver "umbilical type" cord. Some people see the cord and others do not. Ecc 12:6 Now is that a coincidence or what ?..Silver Cord "ahemmmm"...I think I would be afraid to go for an astrel walk right enough, someone else might jump in my body while Im out LOL!!!!!!!!.That could happen Right ?..Me thinks I will stay put, for a while anyway... :bounce
     
  13. Ryan2065

    Ryan2065 Well-Known Member

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    Michael, I asked for studies... The "evidence" that there was life after death for the one study referenced on your site was this
    "4 people had NDE's, so there is life after death." If I missed some calculations or something of the sort please let me know. And if you didn't notice it is being challenged by neurogical scientists (so the heart doctors said that it was an NDE and the brain doctors say that it isn't) The BBC news report was against NDE's (at least that is what I got from the last statement.)

    Usually it is good to quote neurologists when trying to find information on the brain... Not heart doctors :p
     
  14. cardero

    cardero Citizen Mod

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    If you notice that there have been many doctors and physicians and psychiatrists who have offered their beliefs to the NDE but the one thing that they haven’t been able to do is explain it away. This tells me that there are indeed people interested in the research of NDE but they are no more enlightened than the people who have experienced one or are doing their own personal research into the subject. Until someone comes up with a way to cure and/or control the near death experience, I will continue to monitor the subject and keep and open mind.
     
  15. glasgowchick

    glasgowchick Gives Glory to God !!!

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    Hi Cardero, I hear what your saying, I think NDE is a very interesting topic, people who have experienced NDE, are so convinced at what they saw, wether it be family, friends or whoever.I have heard of people on their death bed pointing up to something they have saw in the corner before passing away..
     
  16. Ryan2065

    Ryan2065 Well-Known Member

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    And just last week my cousin (a schizophrenic) was convinced a snake was coming out of his chest...
     
  17. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    I remember panicking alot, my lungs having a burning sensation, then a feeling of being disconnected, like I was starting to seperate from my body.
     
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