Near Death experiences and the scientific method.

[Lekatt]

Why not?
You seem very sure for someone who can't demonstrate the veracity of their claims.

No, and I can't demonstrate and verify what I had for breakfast, or how long I workout at the gym. I guess I just can't prove millions of things I do and experience every day. Oh Shushs.

 

[SkepticThinker]

No, and I can't demonstrate and verify what I had for breakfast, or how long I workout at the gym. I guess I just can't prove millions of things I do and experience every day. Oh Shushs.

Sure you could; those are pretty mundane and ordinary things. If you really had to you could take a photo of your breakfast and show it to me. You can tell me where the gym is that you attend and also send me a photo. There are plenty of ways to verify such ordinary things, if you had to. Besides, these are just boring everyday claims that don't affect anybody else all that much.

Claims of Gods and afterlives are a tad different though - in that if they were true, would affect everyone on the planet in a major way. I mean, we're basically all immortal, under your view. That's a bit more significant than what you had for breakfast this morning, wouldn't you say? Extraordinary claims such as existence of afterlives and spirits require some pretty good evidence, don't you think? Or do you just take someone's word for it if they tell you they saw a pixie walking down the sidewalk? Or that they were abducted by aliens?

There must be a way to test these claims and figure out which are true and which are false ... hmmmmm ....

 

[Lekatt]

Sure you could; those are pretty mundane and ordinary things. If you really had to you could take a photo of your breakfast and show it to me. You can tell me where the gym is that you attend and also send me a photo. There are plenty of ways to verify such ordinary things, if you had to. Besides, these are just boring everyday claims that don't affect anybody else all that much.

Claims of Gods and afterlives are a tad different though - in that if they were true, would affect everyone on the planet in a major way. I mean, we're basically all immortal, under your view. That's a bit more significant than what you had for breakfast this morning, wouldn't you say? Extraordinary claims such as existence of afterlives and spirits require some pretty good evidence, don't you think? Or do you just take someone's word for it if they tell you they saw a pixie walking down the sidewalk? Or that they were abducted by aliens?

There must be a way to test these claims and figure out which are true and which are false ... hmmmmm ....

Can you prove what you saw on TV, or what yesterday's sunset was like, no. You either trust the person who tells you about it or you don't. Most of the people is the world believe there is an afterlife. I know there is one, I been there.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I don't believe in God(s).
I've never seen convincing evidence that God(s) exist.
That doesn't mean I say there are no God(s).

Ok, so you reject the teachings of all the religions of the world, ancient and modern, wrt the reality represented by the concept of God.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I'm sorry but this sounds like woo-woo to me.

Christianity doesn't have anything to do with out of body/expanded consciousness (whatever that even means). At least, not when I was a member. There was no talk of "a a sense of oneness with all that exists" and "ego minds" and all this woo-woo stuff that doesn't really explain anything. This all just sounds like a lot of post hoc rationalization to me.

Do you not recall the teaching about that which is born of flesh is flesh and that which is born of spirit is spirit, unless you are born of the spirit, you will not see the kingdom of God. You see spirit is not confined to the your body, one must transition self identity from the body to the spirit (OOB) in order to become an immortal. Likewise do you not remember Jesus said the that the Father and I are one, the result of union. The very word yoga of the Hindu religion means union...oneness.
Ego mind is merely your personal mind, the "I", the thinker, the ego.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

The claimant knows that skeptics don't accept spiritual explanations for NDE because spirits and spirit worlds are not in evidence.

(There, I fixed it for you.)

It hasn't really changed anything, regardless of the reason you put forth for rejecting it, it still reads as you rejecting the reality represented by the concept of spirituality.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Some people use circular logic. I have seen it.

Sort of cryptic way to put the search for knowledge. Perception is a basic skill that can be honed. I see not understanding many places.

Cryptic? I don't think so, most people never consider their perceptions and conceptions of reality as being a flawed because their mind itself is presently lacking in understanding of what understanding is.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Cryptic? I don't think so, most people never consider their perceptions and conceptions of reality as being a flawed because their mind itself is presently lacking in understanding of what understanding is.

Some people believe their perception of NDE's is flawless truth, when the meaning of the experience remains largely unknown. It is not just perception and conception, but the validity of what we conclude from those things.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

No, and I can't demonstrate and verify what I had for breakfast, or how long I workout at the gym. I guess I just can't prove millions of things I do and experience every day. Oh Shushs.

A person can demonstrate their breakfast menu or workout routine. There are evidences that can be applied. We know people eat. We know that they have breakfast. There is a body of existing knowledge regarding human dining and activity. You could get an independent observer to track your meals and workouts.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Can you prove what you saw on TV, or what yesterday's sunset was like, no. You either trust the person who tells you about it or you don't. Most of the people is the world believe there is an afterlife. I know there is one, I been there.

Can you prove what you believe? Prove is a terrible standard to evaluate information.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Can you prove what you saw on TV, or what yesterday's sunset was like, no. You either trust the person who tells you about it or you don't. Most of the people is the world believe there is an afterlife. I know there is one, I been there.

Concrete information and observations regarding TV viewing and local weather patterns can be established for a particular individual. These can be more than mere anecdotes.

 

[rational experiences]

The teaching we live spiritually in two places.

The water oxygenated microbial body of our bio imaged physical life body left by half.

We have to be sexually biological created to own first form. Biology. To be the self ownership highest status.

Remains with God in the heavens. Is half of natural life we physically lost.

The physical bio life body that first existed naturally.

In fact we have been waiting for the two bodies to reunite. To be healed and spiritually returned.

By detail womb law cold by contraction is pressure change. Pressure changes biology.

As science released expanded irradiated earths heavens by unsealing earths stone mass.

We have been living a shift of our bio life by water abduction oxygenation microbial losses. The spiritual term.

It had been explained as a heavenly state that the bio life was involved in.

Babies are born by sperm ovary are seen visiting in adult bodies. How else do you think such phenomena could occur?

Science says I know all things. They know design machine how to react mass. You don't know own nor control spirit conditions.

In science machine status the gases you got from earth mass. Is not from the heavens.

Is a teaching of causes of scientific choice. How life halved it's living presence. Why we inherited a half loss of our original biological being and health.

Memory that stated once we never needed to eat as our body forms used the bio life forms in water as food energy.

Reason is science has to accept they never owned the mass bodies. Yet they manipulate science conditions from mass abstractions.

The phenomena causes was taught. It was sciences caused fault. We once understood why it happened. Babies not living prove we are losing our whole selves to heavenly change.

Was the exact human teaching before.

Reason for the heavenly spiritual phenomena state.

The state recording is universal not heavenly.

Sciences mind is affected by universal.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Some people believe their perception of NDE's is flawless truth, when the meaning of the experience remains largely unknown. It is not just perception and conception, but the validity of what we conclude from those things.

Ok, there is some truth in what you say, but .let me ask you a question, in the context of Christianity, what do you understand as spirit?

 

[rational experiences]

If humans say I can meditate. I don't expend my body to use energy within as food source microbes... I don't eat. And live. You say he is teaching me a concept.

Men say once we owned life for 200 years.

Then I changed sealed earth God. O mass.

The heavens gases which I theoried about was attacked. As God the earth never owned the immaculate heavens.

The amount of mass I removed to get a gas was how much radiation attacked the natural heavens gas.

Life was converted.

I am the mind body theist designer to convert mass that is not converting. Just a human. Why I was changed also for lying.

I am the destroyer. A human scientist.

So humans said I came from the eternal as a pre existing being. My body changed converted in oxygenated water ground zero state.

The state the Heavens. I own my image eternal being. Why I know I changed the eternal inherited my karma.

I lived as a human until my eternal being converted totally and just disappeared.

Once I never died. I survived about 200 years.

And told the truth.

As 200 years we lost half O held cell value to C value 100 year life span.

Now 20 years belongs to recording by machines water oxygen abducted.

Why babies cannot exist.

As 20 years is a babies development.

100 years goes into spirit gods heavens as our other life of spirit. Two spiritual existing states. Biological and removed.

80 years became modern man's doubled life inheritance

40 mutated life span has doubled back to now an average 80 years.

As healing.

So once we never ate food. Why we have an aversion reaction to killing life to eat. If you are spiritual.

Once we never died. We just spiritually disappeared becoming with water oxygen.

Was our true spiritual teaching.

Our brother irradiated our bodies so we inherited death and painful suffering.

So 2012 pressure change would have held water oxygenated healthy microbial life to the ground. We would have had a miraculous life healing.

Removed by nuclear science.

Why I am giving this message notified.

When fed back by universal memory I saw gigantic spirit images as dark shadows of spirits speaking moving around as if space owned a floor.

Memory the spirit of language had been burnt.

Spatial creation just a lowered changed mass that once was with and belonged as the eternal form. Changed by the beings living in it.

If it wasn't real then why does a human move around as a separate body within the heavens ethereal stretched into space form?

As mass is just held compacted contracted mass in each one place. Remove its physicality...no space.

 

[tas8831]

Data is not stored in the brain, I believe this because no data has been found in the brain.

So when did you look for data in the brain?

Where is data stored on your computer? And have you looked for it?

 

[Lekatt]

So when did you look for data in the brain?

Where is data stored on your computer? And have you looked for it?

Data is stored on the Hard Drive or Memory Chips in the computer, and I look at it all the time.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Can you prove what you saw on TV, or what yesterday's sunset was like, no. You either trust the person who tells you about it or you don't. Most of the people is the world believe there is an afterlife. I know there is one, I been there.

I literally just addressed this, so I'm not sure why you're just repeating yourself.

I could easily prove what I saw on TV yesterday by referring to the TV Guide. I could show you a picture of yesterday's sunset - besides, we know sunsets occur every single day.

It looks like I have to repeat myself, because you didn't take in and consider what I just said:

Claims of Gods and afterlives are a tad different though - in that if they were true, would affect everyone on the planet in a major way. I mean, we're basically all immortal, under your view. That's a bit more significant than what you had for breakfast this morning, wouldn't you say? Extraordinary claims such as existence of afterlives and spirits require some pretty good evidence, don't you think? Or do you just take someone's word for it if they tell you they saw a pixie walking down the sidewalk? Or that they were abducted by aliens?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Ok, so you reject the teachings of all the religions of the world, ancient and modern, wrt the reality represented by the concept of God.

I'm not convinced that they are correct.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Do you not recall the teaching about that which is born of flesh is flesh and that which is born of spirit is spirit, unless you are born of the spirit, you will not see the kingdom of God. You see spirit is not confined to the your body, one must transition self identity from the body to the spirit (OOB) in order to become an immortal. Likewise do you not remember Jesus said the that the Father and I are one, the result of union. The very word yoga of the Hindu religion means union...oneness.
Ego mind is merely your personal mind, the "I", the thinker, the ego.

God is the spirit, not me. At least, that's how I understood it back in the day.
The rest of this is not in evidence and sounds like woo woo to me.

 

[SkepticThinker]

It hasn't really changed anything, regardless of the reason you put forth for rejecting it, it still reads as you rejecting the reality represented by the concept of spirituality.

You're just claiming here that it is reality.
But you haven't demonstrated that it is.