Nazca Lines

[Beyondo]

The Nazca Lines have been debated for decades. Scientist always argue that the need to have flight isn't neccessary to make the lines. I personally don't have an issue with that argument but scientist fail to explain what keeps motivating a society to make drawings that they can't see. Monument building isn't really to impress the gods, monuments are built to impress people. If you claim to believe in a god whose all powerful and point the doubtors to a some small statue or a library of scrolls or clay tablets you'll probably get ransacked and invaded or worse a revolt will rise removing you from control! On the other hand if you make a really big monument that causes peoples heads to look way up there's a certain impression that people get. The bigger the better and the more impress your population and enemies will be.

So the Nazca lines actually fulfill the one attribute almost all religous monuments fulfill, they are enormous! But you can not see them from the ground. So what is the likely hood that any enemy is going to think twice about challenging the Nazca empire because of the power of their gods? How likely is the Nazcan general population going to be impressed with what they can not see?

Now the next jump that people take is that aliens with flying saucers gave them a lift so they could see their handy work and/or they where actually helping the aliens navigate to airports by putting signs on the ground. Of course thinking that a ancient society could have masterd some form of flight is impossible, right? Almost anyone from either of the camps regarding the Nazcan lines agree with acient man could not have figured out how to fly, why?

What is the most primitive means of flight? One answer is kites, another is a hot air balloon. Both techniques do not require advance knowledge of thermodynamics, metallury or aerodynamics. So where is the proof of flying machines? Both kites and hot air ballons would be made of material that would be biodegradable, unless of course it happened to get petrified or was intentionally perserved like a mummy. Since the motivation to preserve a machine is not likely then it makes sense that we don't see any evidence of a physical flying kite or balloon. But what we do see are a complex matrix of detailed lines forming images of animals and gods. Of course there are lines that just point in certian directions, many believe that the straight lines are paths that direct travelers to water or other resources. Well that sounds pretty good to me cause if you're in a hot air balloon controling your direction is pretty much left to the wind and if you end up landing somewhere in the middle of a desert it would be nice to have an idea of where you landed and where there might be water...:beach:

 

[Willamena]

Just a guess, but I think they built the lines for themselves, not for anyone else.

 

[painted wolf]

One only has to go a "short distance" to Andes mountains and you can see them (not too far for a human to travel by foot)... and they are easy enough to make by scaling up with a grid system. It's a very old artists trick.

wa:do

 

[Beyondo]

One only has to go a "short distance" to Andes mountains and you can see them (not too far for a human to travel by foot)... and they are easy enough to make by scaling up with a grid system. It's a very old artists trick.

wa:do

The lines can not been seen from the Andes mountains...

 

[footprints]

The Nazca Lines have been debated for decades. Scientist always argue that the need to have flight isn't neccessary to make the lines. I personally don't have an issue with that argument but scientist fail to explain what keeps motivating a society to make drawings that they can't see. Monument building isn't really to impress the gods, monuments are built to impress people. If you claim to believe in a god whose all powerful and point the doubtors to a some small statue or a library of scrolls or clay tablets you'll probably get ransacked and invaded or worse a revolt will rise removing you from control! On the other hand if you make a really big monument that causes peoples heads to look way up there's a certain impression that people get. The bigger the better and the more impress your population and enemies will be.

So the Nazca lines actually fulfill the one attribute almost all religous monuments fulfill, they are enormous! But you can not see them from the ground. So what is the likely hood that any enemy is going to think twice about challenging the Nazca empire because of the power of their gods? How likely is the Nazcan general population going to be impressed with what they can not see?

Now the next jump that people take is that aliens with flying saucers gave them a lift so they could see their handy work and/or they where actually helping the aliens navigate to airports by putting signs on the ground. Of course thinking that a ancient society could have masterd some form of flight is impossible, right? Almost anyone from either of the camps regarding the Nazcan lines agree with acient man could not have figured out how to fly, why?

What is the most primitive means of flight? One answer is kites, another is a hot air balloon. Both techniques do not require advance knowledge of thermodynamics, metallury or aerodynamics. So where is the proof of flying machines? Both kites and hot air ballons would be made of material that would be biodegradable, unless of course it happened to get petrified or was intentionally perserved like a mummy. Since the motivation to preserve a machine is not likely then it makes sense that we don't see any evidence of a physical flying kite or balloon. But what we do see are a complex matrix of detailed lines forming images of animals and gods. Of course there are lines that just point in certian directions, many believe that the straight lines are paths that direct travelers to water or other resources. Well that sounds pretty good to me cause if you're in a hot air balloon controling your direction is pretty much left to the wind and if you end up landing somewhere in the middle of a desert it would be nice to have an idea of where you landed and where there might be water...:beach:

In general, people will see what they want to see and use every justification and reason they can think of to prove it. Then they will use every excuse in the book, to keep that which they have already justified, in their own mind.

 

[Beyondo]

In general, people will see what they want to see and use every justification and reason they can think of to prove it. Then they will use every excuse in the book, to keep that which they have already justified, in their own mind.

Ah, how does that explain the Nazcan lines? I mean my point here is that manned flight is attributed to the modern day era and is viewed as impossible in ancient times. The fact is the first form of successful manned flight was a hot air balloon made of low tech textile material. The actual idea came from witnessing bags flying out of chimneys! Why couldn't some ancient person witness the same effect? Fire pits, chimneys are not unique to 17th century Europe. Its an issue of accidental inspiration and determination from trial and error to make a hot air balloon. Just as the wheel found itself invented multiple times in different parts of the world so too could the hot air balloon.

The bottom line is you can't say that manned flight is a remote possibility for an ancient civilization, there is no need for high tech materials or understanding for it to happen. You also have to admit that anthropologically religion is more about marketing which is prompting emotional buttons to persuade action. Billboard advertisements are everywhere on the streets of modern civilizations, why? Because visibility reminds and motivates people to action, if it didn't work we wouldn't see billboards. Monuments are alot like billboards and their visibility is crucial for them to work. When one can only see the billboards from the sky you have to ask; could they fly?

 

[footprints]

Ah, how does that explain the Nazcan lines? I mean my point here is that manned flight is attributed to the modern day era and is viewed as impossible in ancient times. The fact is the first form of successful manned flight was a hot air balloon made of low tech textile material. The actual idea came from witnessing bags flying out of chimneys! Why couldn't some ancient person witness the same effect? Fire pits, chimneys are not unique to 17th century Europe. Its an issue of accidental inspiration and determination from trial and error to make a hot air balloon. Just as the wheel found itself invented multiple times in different parts of the world so too could the hot air balloon.

The bottom line is you can't say that manned flight is a remote possibility for an ancient civilization, there is no need for high tech materials or understanding for it to happen. You also have to admit that anthropologically religion is more about marketing which is prompting emotional buttons to persuade action. Billboard advertisements are everywhere on the streets of modern civilizations, why? Because visibility reminds and motivates people to action, if it didn't work we wouldn't see billboards. Monuments are alot like billboards and their visibility is crucial for them to work. When one can only see the billboards from the sky you have to ask; could they fly?

The Australian aboriginal and the African bushman, have had boomerangs going back well before the time period that you specified. Bows and arrows, cross-bows utilised the principal of flight. Mankind has intelligence, and can watch a bird in flight. We have had knowledge of flight for a long, long, long time.

I place the Nazcan lines in the same category as I place the images of suggested alien images depicted by the Maya, in the same way. One has to view them from above to get the best images. One of the other things I place in this category is the Hopi Trail. There is much speculation either way, but just not enough evidence to conclude anything. Again we are lacking in knowledge.

The one thing I will say categorically though, ancient cultures were not as dumb and stupid, as some people would categorise them in. Many throw the baby out with the bathwater in this respect.

 

[Beyondo]

The one thing I will say categorically though, ancient cultures were not as dumb and stupid, as some people would categorise them in. Many throw the baby out with the bathwater in this respect.

I agree...

 

[whereismynotecard]

I think they could have been for the gods, or maybe if they believed in some sort of heaven (like in the sky) they could have built them so that people who have died looking down from heaven can see them. I think that building them for their gods makes a whole lotta sense. Throughout the history of humanity, people have built all sorts of crazy things for gods.

 

[painted wolf]

The lines can not been seen from the Andes mountains...

The Nazca plane is a plateau of the Andes Mountains and more of the figures have been found on the mountainsides.
Given that you can see the Massachusetts cape from Mount Washington (more than 100 miles away), seeing less distance from higher mountains (with less cloud cover) doesn't strike me as unreasonable.

wa:do

 

[Beyondo]

I think they could have been for the gods, or maybe if they believed in some sort of heaven (like in the sky) they could have built them so that people who have died looking down from heaven can see them. I think that building them for their gods makes a whole lotta sense. Throughout the history of humanity, people have built all sorts of crazy things for gods.

On explination I've heard is when in a drug induced mental state they could visualize the drawings as seen from the sky. So in this sense the monuments provided a controlled "suggestion" where by the Nazcans could create a hallucination of flying. However no one has proven that such forced suggestions can acutally motivate a drug induced hallucination.

 

[Beyondo]

The Nazca plane is a plateau of the Andes Mountains and more of the figures have been found on the mountainsides.
Given that you can see the Massachusetts cape from Mount Washington (more than 100 miles away), seeing less distance from higher mountains (with less cloud cover) doesn't strike me as unreasonable.

wa:do

The lines seen as figures of animals and such where noted when seen from an aircraft. No one before the invention of airplanes made any such sitings of animal figures.

 

[painted wolf]

The lines seen as figures of animals and such where noted when seen from an aircraft. No one before the invention of airplanes made any such sitings of animal figures.

Because it's obvious that that modern people visit all the mountain places that the Nazca culture did.

Also, why do you need to be able to see them? These were all pottery motifs, people knew what they looked like... what was important was the scale... people love giant earthwork drawings, even if they can't see them in total.

wa:do

 

[Beyondo]

Because it's obvious that that modern people visit all the mountain places that the Nazca culture did.

Also, why do you need to be able to see them? These were all pottery motifs, people knew what they looked like... what was important was the scale... people love giant earthwork drawings, even if they can't see them in total.

wa:do

The url below points to what I would consider one of the best analysis of the visibility of the Nazcan lines. It would appear that the lines could have been a living monument! Religous rituals where hundreds of not thousands of people walked the lines and made them visible from many locations.

http://www.photogrammetry.ethz.ch/general/persons/martin/paper/caa2006.pdf

 

[whereismynotecard]

Too bad we didn't learn about the Nazca lines in my Archaeology class. My Archaeology professor knows everything and could have given us all the best theories.

 

[Beyondo]

The url below points to what I would consider one of the best analysis of the visibility of the Nazcan lines. It would appear that the lines could have been a living monument! Religous rituals where hundreds of not thousands of people walked the lines and made them visible from many locations.

http://www.photogrammetry.ethz.ch/general/persons/martin/paper/caa2006.pdf

I'd like to add that the paper did not mention the use of torches while the Nazcans walked the lines making the figures spectacular sights at night!

 

[challupa]

Maybe they were a culture that were really good at OBE's and/or astral travel... I don't know if I even believe in that kind of stuff, but if they happen, it might be another explanation.

Have you ever seen these lines? My son was there two years ago and went up in a plane to see them. He was quite disappointed because there really wasn't anything much to see. I was so interested in hearing about what he thought of them and it doesn't sound like they really are much in actuality. However, the scope of the project is impressive and the fact that the lines can even still be seen after years and years of being exposed to wind rain and all the elements that usually change the ground features.

 

[Amill]

They actually had a show on national geographic the other night about the Nazca lines, says here it will air again this thursday. I didn't get to watch much of it while it was on the other night.
Nasca Lines: The Buried Secrets | National Geographic Channel