My Karma Ran Over Your Dogma

[lunamoth]

So, what's the problem with dogma? I guess first of all, exactly what is dogma? My pocket Webster says that it is 1) a tenet or code of tenets or 2) a doctrine or body of doctrines formally proclaimed by a church. What's wrong with that? Can you even have a religion without having some agreed upon tenets or doctrines? Yet I often see the word dogma derided and spoken as if spitting out something distasteful, or as if a necessary but unhappy fact.

Is dogma a dirty word? Does your religion have dogma? If you think dogma is bad, why?

 

[Sunstone]

Some religions are more dogmatic than others. Taoism, for instance, has very little or no dogma in it.

My hunch is that stability is the main appeal of dogma to some people. That is, some folks look for a set of doctrines that will either never change or change only slowly and slightly. For other people, that's not a major factor in choosing a religion.

 

[bigvindaloo]

So, what's the problem with dogma? I guess first of all, exactly what is dogma? My pocket Webster says that it is 1) a tenet or code of tenets or 2) a doctrine or body of doctrines formally proclaimed by a church. What's wrong with that? Can you even have a religion without having some agreed upon tenets or doctrines? Yet I often see the word dogma derided and spoken as if spitting out something distasteful, or as if a necessary but unhappy fact.

Is dogma a dirty word? Does your religion have dogma? If you think dogma is bad, why?

Dogma relies on literal or authoritative interpretation either within a religion or from a wider perspective between religions. And yes I would say it is usually a derogatory description of a religion, given that zealots are usually referred to as dogmatic in their approach. So those that reject dogma want a more open minded approach either within their religion or will follow a religion they perceive has a more open minded or open ended philosophy.

Suspicion of dogma is something someone intent on investigation of religious thought must transcend.

Why do you refer to Karma in the OP?

 

[cardero]

Dogma=rigid

 

[PureX]

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with dogma, or with the traditional conservatism that it promotes and protects. Any healthy entity requires integral strength to withstand external threats and stresses, and I think that's what traditional conservatism and it's dogmas are really all about - maintaining the entegral strength of the ideologies and institutions they represent.

But it's important, though too, to keep in mind that the health of an entity also relies on it's ability to adapt to changes in it's environment and to adopt better ways of thinking and doing things in responce to ever-changing conditions. And this is the basic purpose of liberalism and of institutional reformation.

I think either of these characteristics can become problematic if they seek to dominate or eliminate the other, because both are necessary aspects of any healthy entity.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Dogma has a way of squashing individuality. Too many want to foist their dogma on someone else, which is way unfortunate.

 

[Booko]

So, what's the problem with dogma? I guess first of all, exactly what is dogma? My pocket Webster says that it is 1) a tenet or code of tenets or 2) a doctrine or body of doctrines formally proclaimed by a church. What's wrong with that? Can you even have a religion without having some agreed upon tenets or doctrines? Yet I often see the word dogma derided and spoken as if spitting out something distasteful, or as if a necessary but unhappy fact.

Is dogma a dirty word? Does your religion have dogma? If you think dogma is bad, why?

I think dogma is sometimes considered a dirty word, because sometimes dogma is used as a spiritual stick to whack others in the head for how evil *they* are. Hm. Sometimes it's been used as the excuse to oppress and massacre others too, which is enough to give any word a bad feel to it.

Generally, "dogma" has become rather like "cult." In the classic use of both of those terms, there is no negative connotation. In common usage, well that's another story.

I'm not sure there is a religion that doesn't have some sort of "dogma" out there. Some religions have less, and some lack anything like an "authority" that propagates it, though.

(I wonder if we can get Victor to start a thread called, "My dogma just peed on your karma"? )

 

[MaddLlama]

All words themselves are neutral. The context in which they are used is what makes them "dirty", "bad", or "good". The intent behind the words you use is more important than the words themselves.
Lots of people don't like the concept of dogma, so of course when they make any reference to it the word takes on a "bad' connotation. But there are also plenty of people who don't feel that way or even feel the opposite, so for them the word has "good" connotations.

The idea that certain sequences of sounds put together are somehow bad is superstitious.

Now, if you'd like to talk about the concept of dogma and whether or not the concept itself is bad or good we can do that. But, then the OP and poll would require some rewording.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Now, if you'd like to talk about the concept of dogma and whether or not the concept itself is bad or good we can do that. But, then the OP and poll would require some rewording.

Looking at the OP, he IS talking about the concept and not the phonemes.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Dogma is just fine as long as it is correct, but karma always trumps it.:yes:

 

[lunamoth]

Suspicion of dogma is something someone intent on investigation of religious thought must transcend.

Hi bigvindaloo. I'm not certain what you mean by this. Do you mean seekers of truth must overcome dogmatic thought, or overcome suspiscion of dogmatic thinking?

Why do you refer to Karma in the OP?

Mostly to catch people's attention, but also to invite any discussion of the relationship or antagonism between karma and dogma.

cheers,
luna

 

[lunamoth]

But it's important, though too, to keep in mind that the health of an entity also relies on it's ability to adapt to changes in it's environment and to adopt better ways of thinking and doing things in responce to ever-changing conditions. And this is the basic purpose of liberalism and of institutional reformation.

I think either of these characteristics can become problematic if they seek to dominate or eliminate the other, because both are necessary aspects of any healthy entity.

Excellent point!

 

[lunamoth]

Dogma has a way of squashing individuality. Too many want to foist their dogma on someone else, which is way unfortunate.

I also agree that people tend to equate dogma with authoritarian thinking and squashing the indvidual. There are other ways of looking at it, however. For example, some people see the acceptance of certain dogmantic beliefs as liberating. Not because they no longer have to think about these things, but because the implementation of discipline (not to be confused with punishment!) to one's life can assist in spiritual growth. Different strokes for different folks, I say.

As for wanting to foist one's religion upon another, I think that's always a poor approach. I belong to the 'build a better mousetrap' school of evangelism myself. If what you practice really is a better way, people will naturally be attracted to it.

2 c,
luna

 

[lunamoth]

I'm not sure there is a religion that doesn't have some sort of "dogma" out there. Some religions have less, and some lack anything like an "authority" that propagates it, though.

As far as I know this is true for taoism. Actually, this is a fascinating point. How has taoism survived as a 'religion' for all of these centuries wihtout a central authority to hold it together?

(I wonder if we can get Victor to start a thread called, "My dogma just peed on your karma"? )

Heehee. But I don't see why this thread would be hosted by Victor?

luna

 

[lunamoth]

Now, if you'd like to talk about the concept of dogma and whether or not the concept itself is bad or good we can do that. But, then the OP and poll would require some rewording.

Hi MLl,

I think you need to get out your Strunk and White. What you suggest only adds needless words to the discussion. I don't need to constantly refer to "the concept of dogma" when I wish to talk about dogma as a concept.

Do you agree with Booko then that dogma is neutral but like the word cult has taken on negative connotations?

luna

 

[lunamoth]

Dogma is just fine as long as it is correct, but karma always trumps it.

And grace trumps both. :yes:

 

[angellous_evangellous]

And grace trumps both. :yes:

I don't see how grace can be distinguished from karma. :sarcastic

 

[Scuba Pete]

Religious types seem oblivious to the fact that they cannot prove very much regarding their dogmatic beliefs, and yet cling to those beliefs like Linus clings to his proverbial security blanket.

Talk about some poisonous dogma! Good illustration Ymir!

 

[Radio Frequency X]

So, what's the problem with dogma? I guess first of all, exactly what is dogma? My pocket Webster says that it is 1) a tenet or code of tenets or 2) a doctrine or body of doctrines formally proclaimed by a church. What's wrong with that? Can you even have a religion without having some agreed upon tenets or doctrines? Yet I often see the word dogma derided and spoken as if spitting out something distasteful, or as if a necessary but unhappy fact.

Is dogma a dirty word? Does your religion have dogma? If you think dogma is bad, why?

Dogma has taken on the connotation of blind faith and conversion tactics, and I don't think that is fair. Everyone uses a few basic and dogmatic assumptions as the foundation of their worldview, whatever it is, and therefore is a natural state of human understanding. Everyone is dogmatic.

 

[MaddLlama]

Hi MLl,

I think you need to get out your Strunk and White. What you suggest only adds needless words to the discussion. I don't need to constantly refer to "the concept of dogma" when I wish to talk about dogma as a concept.

I'm big into semantics. Your poll specifically asks "Is Dogma a dirty word". If that's not what you specifically want to ask, there were plenty of other ways to word the question and poll choices. I'm just answering the question as it was presented. *shrug*

Do you agree with Booko then that dogma is neutral but like the word cult has taken on negative connotations?

I'm pretty sure that's what I said before.