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My God Why have you forsaken me

waitasec

Veteran Member
Your copy must read completely different than mine.
'...I say unto you, before Abraham I was...'

Appears unrelated to this immediate digression...or this topic.

no i think it has everything to do with the topic thief.

why was he forsaken by not becoming king?
john 8:58 is referring to ex 3:14

ex 3:14. God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'"

Exodus - Chapter 3 (Parshah Shemot) - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible

i see a correlation here...
the freeing of the hebrew slaves and the freeing of the jews from roman rule...
we will be freed, i will be king.

wonder if every single "i am" statement jesus made was actually i will be...
an interesting thought.

edit:
mark 15:2
2 Then Pilate asked Him, “Are You the King of the Jews?”
He answered and said to him, “It is as you say.”

and of course jesus says this is before he's hanging on the cross forsaken as it were
 
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Thief

Rogue Theologian
no i think it has everything to do with the topic thief.

why was he forsaken by not becoming king?
john 8:58 is referring to ex 3:14

ex 3:14. God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'"

Exodus - Chapter 3 (Parshah Shemot) - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible

i see a correlation here...
the freeing of the hebrew slaves and the freeing of the jews from roman rule...
we will be freed, i will be king.

wonder if every single "i am" statement jesus made was actually i will be...
an interesting thought.

edit:
mark 15:2
2 Then Pilate asked Him, “Are You the King of the Jews?”
He answered and said to him, “It is as you say.”

and of course jesus says this is before he's hanging on the cross forsaken as it were

The title question refers only to that moment at hand....
that last hour...His last breath.

His attention was focused on the lack of presence...of the Spirit.
That same Spirit that bolstered all He had said or done....was silent.

If the angels are willing to stand silent...I expect no better treatment...later.

My last hour will be mine....in silence.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
tell me about it...

Not much more to tell. The gospels were fairly concise.

This topic went a lot further than needed, but mostly due to digression and misdirection.

His words as He died seem to me easy to understand.
"Why have you forsaken Me?"

Obviously....there was silence.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
His words as He died seem to me easy to understand.
"Why have you forsaken Me?"

Obviously....there was silence.
The OT verse he was referring to was not really talking about being forsaken. A father does not forsake their son.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
The OT verse he was referring to was not really talking about being forsaken. A father does not forsake their son.

Perhaps we can agree....His words indicate the silence.
The Spirit was not responding.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
I'm sorry I just keep thinkng about this song from System of a Down so I have to post this.

Some of the lyrics
I don't think you trust in my
Self-righteous suicide,
I cry, when angels deserve to die
In my self-righteous suicide,
I cry, when angels deserve to die

Father (father)
Father (father)
Father (father)
Father (father)
Father into your hands, I commend my spirit
Father into your hands, why have you forsaken me?
In your eyes, forsaken me
In your thoughts, forsaken me
In your heart, forsaken me

[youtube]CSvFpBOe8eY[/youtube]
System Of A Down - Chop Suey! - YouTube
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
Not much more to tell. The gospels were fairly concise.

This topic went a lot further than needed, but mostly due to digression and misdirection.

His words as He died seem to me easy to understand.
"Why have you forsaken Me?"

Obviously....there was silence.

what is really a brain tease is, how can he not answer himself?
:shrug:
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
How is that even possible for someone who is supposedly god in the flesh?

It's another topic.
For now the quick response.....

If you share a creed or discipline, are you not of the same 'blood'?

If you share a creed or discipline, are you not of the same Spirit?

If the One who has bolstered your every word and deed, fails to respond...
'Why have you forsaken Me?'
would be the obvious expression.

Sons of God ...are we?
 
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look3467

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Friends, you all are swatting at gnats.
In light of what all Jesus came to do, the answer of silences evades you all.

Is it not clear in the scriptures that Jesus came to do the will of the Father?

Ref:Mat 26:42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

If the will of the Father was to be honored completely and to the point means only that the Jesus was in the Fathers place doing what the Father wanted Him to do as a man.

Ref:Jesus a similitude of Cyrus; Isa 45:13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.

Isa 45:13 -
him — Cyrus, type of Messiah, who redeems the captives of Satan “without money and without price” (Isa_55:1), “freely” (gratuitously) (Isa_52:3; Isa_61:1; Zec_9:11; Rom_3:24).
in righteousness — to fulfil My righteous purpose (see on Isa_41:2; see on Isa_42:6; see on Jer_23:6).>>>Jamieson, Fausset and brown Commentary

If then, the Father were to have answered Jesus, as we proposed He should have done, and that the Father rescue Him from the cross, suppose Jesus would have completed His mission? (Not my will but thine?)

Silence was the Fathers answer, for Jesus' mission was not yet complete. Jesus had to descend ref:psa 28:1 <A Psalm of David.> Unto thee will I cry, O LORD my rock; be not silent to me: lest, if thou be silent to me, I become like them that go down into the pit.

Further explanation: Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

The side where all: Eze 32:23 Whose graves are set in the sides of the pit, and her company is round about her grave: all of them slain, fallen by the sword, which caused terror in the land of the living.

Jesus was counted among them: Psa 88:4 I am counted with them that go down into the pit: I am as a man that hath no strength:

Silence is an answer when the answer is no. As in the Father saying No, I have not forsaken you, for I will deliver you, but you must complete the journey: God's promise to Jesus :psa 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Why was His journey not complete at the cross?

Ref:Isa 24:22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.

Shall be visited? By whom? Jesus?

Gnats are every where and plenty of them. Those gnats, have a way of entertaining our focus away from the real issue, and that of what Christ is all about!

Blessings, AJ
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Friends, you all are swatting at gnats.
In light of what all Jesus came to do, the answer of silences evades you all.

Is it not clear in the scriptures that Jesus came to do the will of the Father?

Ref:Mat 26:42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

If the will of the Father was to be honored completely and to the point means only that the Jesus was in the Fathers place doing what the Father wanted Him to do as a man.

Ref:Jesus a similitude of Cyrus; Isa 45:13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.



If then, the Father were to have answered Jesus, as we proposed He should have done, and that the Father rescue Him from the cross, suppose Jesus would have completed His mission? (Not my will but thine?)

Silence was the Fathers answer, for Jesus' mission was not yet complete. Jesus had to descend ref:psa 28:1 <A Psalm of David.> Unto thee will I cry, O LORD my rock; be not silent to me: lest, if thou be silent to me, I become like them that go down into the pit.

Further explanation: Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

The side where all: Eze 32:23 Whose graves are set in the sides of the pit, and her company is round about her grave: all of them slain, fallen by the sword, which caused terror in the land of the living.

Jesus was counted among them: Psa 88:4 I am counted with them that go down into the pit: I am as a man that hath no strength:

Silence is an answer when the answer is no. As in the Father saying No, I have not forsaken you, for I will deliver you, but you must complete the journey: God's promise to Jesus :psa 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Why was His journey not complete at the cross?

Ref:Isa 24:22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.

Shall be visited? By whom? Jesus?

Gnats are every where and plenty of them. Those gnats, have a way of entertaining our focus away from the real issue, and that of what Christ is all about!

Blessings, AJ

I'm not fond of ranting as the quotations are often misused.
So many people want to bolster themselves.

But this one is better than usual.

Now if we could just clarify....
The silence is just part of dying.
It doesn't mean anything.
The topic question is noteworthy, but beyond that....
It's something we all must do.
 
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look3467

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
as clear as mud....
one big baseless claim.
Even in the mud there is clarity.

Look: Gen 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

Suppose it was muddy?

But Wait: Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Just plain old dust would not be sufficient to form a clay vessel, but as mud?

So, could we say "out of mud" man was formed?

Blessings, AJ
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
Even in the mud there is clarity.

Look: Gen 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

Suppose it was muddy?

But Wait: Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Just plain old dust would not be sufficient to form a clay vessel, but as mud?

So, could we say "out of mud" man was formed?

Blessings, AJ

still a baseless claim
 
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