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Muhammad ibn Abd'Wahhab

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Assad91, May 26, 2013.

  1. Sakeenah

    Sakeenah Well-Known Member

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    I would like to join this discussion inshaAllah if you don't mind
    I hope it will be a discussion based on understanding and respecting each others opinions
     
  2. Assad91

    Assad91 Shi'ah Ali

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    Of corse sister, agreed. I hope all who participate will use proper adab, and not allow their anger get ahold.

    As such, if I have offended before, or do so in future, forgive me.

    As for the topic of tawassul throught the Prophet Muhammad (saws) and the Awliya (saints), I will not be able to write much until I am able to get on the desktop. But I can summ it up as,

    The Prophets and Awliya are physically passed, but they remain alive in the grave as we all do. They are able to, with permission of Allah (swt), to perform intercession for us. This is a position held by all four madhabs historically. It was only until ibn Abd Wahhab who denounced it (like Ibn Taymiyya) and proceded to declare takfir on all who did such, allowing for their blood to be spilt.

    Now I can post more, insh'Allah soon. But till tnan, feel free to respond, or add.
     
  3. Sakeenah

    Sakeenah Well-Known Member

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    Same here if I may have offended you forgive me, and may Allah forgive us for our shortcomings ameen.

    I believe that there is a form of waseelah/tawassul
    which is seeking to reach Allaah (tawassul) by believing in Him and His messengers, and obeying Him and His messenger, This is what is meant in the aayah:

    “O you who believe! Do your duty to Allaah and fear Him. Seek the means of approach to Him…”

    [al-Maa’idah 5:35]
    and This includes seeking to approach Allaah through His Names and Attributes, or doing good deeds and worship.

    tawassul by asking His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) to make du’a’ for one during his lifetime, and the believers asking one another to make du’aa’ for one another. This I believe is encouraged.

    I do believe in the high status of our prophets and auwliya, but I don't think it's permissible for us to ask them for intercession or help after their death. And I think calling upon Allaah, whether it is for a purpose such as asking Him to grant some benefit or to ward off some harm, or as an act of worship to express humility and submission before Him, can only be addressed directly to Allaah.

    Could you post the daleel of the four madhaahib saying its permissible, when you have time. I follow the shaafi'i madhab and I haven't read this opinion from imam shaafi'i.

    barakalahu feek
     
  4. Assad91

    Assad91 Shi'ah Ali

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    I can't go into full detail, but I think it was Imam Shafi'i ra (I follow his madhab as well) who used to visit the grave of another imam (Hanefa or Malik ra)

    And as someone who follows Shafi'i madhab, I must ask a side question. How can you follow Shafi'i madhab and be salafi? The founder was a hanbali and salafis don't follow any madhab strictly, as such running the risk of talfiq and mixing with what is now a practically neo-hanbali madhab.
     
  5. Sakeenah

    Sakeenah Well-Known Member

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    I think it's possible to be shafi'i and salafi..it's true that mostly the scholars from Saudi Arabia are hanbali..even though many salafis think they don't follow follow a madhab most of them follow the hanbali without realizing. Following a madhab isnt against islam.. it's blind following which isn't allowed.
    If you listen to sh. ibn uthaymeen in his explanations of waraqaat he says that it is permissible to follow a certain madhab as laymen. And he himself encouraged laymen to follow a madhab.

    I prefer the shaafi'i madhab after reading the fiqh book abu shujaa'.
     
  6. Nehustan

    Nehustan Well-Known Member

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    To be honest I've never fully looked into the difference between the schools of jurisprudence, but I have been told on multiple occasions by people that listen to my opinions that I am closest to Hanafi. I'll watch this thread with interest.
     
  7. Sakeenah

    Sakeenah Well-Known Member

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    I think a lot of Muslims in the UK especially the Asian community follow the hanafi madhab.
     
  8. Nehustan

    Nehustan Well-Known Member

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    Well that could be why then. I am a Brit :D
     
  9. TashaN

    TashaN Veteran Member
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    I'm checking this thread now and then but i didn't have the time to search the internet for what all the four madhabs said about this and even i did quick search but didn't find much relevant information except in Arabic, so i would be grateful if he could post it for us as well.
     
  10. Assad91

    Assad91 Shi'ah Ali

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    Thing is, the salafi sheikhs will side with one madhab in say Salah, but than another in wudu. They mix the madhabs claiming one is more "authentic" than another. As for the hanbali sheikhs, they are not traditonal in the sense a Shafi'i or Hanafi scholar would be. Instead, they follow Ibn Abd Wahhabs additions to the madhab.
     
  11. Sakeenah

    Sakeenah Well-Known Member

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    There are a lot salafi shayuukh who do that but they mostly call themselves 'ahlul hadeeth' (the people of hadith) meaning they look at which madhab has the strongest proof such as the authenticity of the chain of the hadith etc.
    And then they take that opinion so that's why you see them for example agreeing with the shaafi'i madhab in one matter and maybe with the hanafi madhab in another etc.
    And in my opinion Allahu a'lem This is permissible..but this is something only people of knowledge and ijtihaad can do.

    The shayuukh who only follow the hanbali fiqh are traditional but the shaafi'i /hanafi fiqh is more precise and has a longer history alahu a'lem (Allah knows best)
    I do not think those scholars follow any additions of shaykh abdulwahaab in the madhab. Because his books are mostly about aqeedah(creed) issues and not fiqh (jurisprudence).
     
  12. Assad91

    Assad91 Shi'ah Ali

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    That would be a different approach as many salafis I know as they usually make taqleed on certain shayks, and only learn from certain such as Albani, Ibn Baaz, Ibn Taymiyyah, ibn Abd Wahhab, etc. I read a fatwaa from a salafi site which said they follow no madhab. While learning islam this is what I was taught. And that one should check the proofs, along with approval of a salafi shayk, before believing.
    See, he did many works in fiqh. The most in aqidah he did was push the athari aqida like Ibn Tamiyyah and Ibn Hanbal. I'd like to ask, how do you pray? According to Shafi'i madhab, or Albani?


    I'd also like to apologize for taking so long on posting on the main subject. I am working on it but its long and taking longer than planed.
     
  13. Assad91

    Assad91 Shi'ah Ali

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    As I have mentioned before, there is already a thread about it here and so, I will be doing some copy&paste on this issue.

    Muhammad Ibn Abd Wahhab declared all people who believed and practiced in tawassul through the Prophet (saws) and the awliya, were committing shirk, and eligible to be killed. Yet here are some evidences of its permissablity in the four schools. If time permits, I will also mention Istighatha.




    on Tawassul See this link, as I can not qoute nearly half of what I want as it is too much.







    [youtube]88I1CKlxeV8[/youtube]
     
  14. Assad91

    Assad91 Shi'ah Ali

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    Lastly in this post, I'd end with a goo speech y Shaykh Hamza Yusuf [youtube]88I1CKlxeV8[/youtube]
    "Tawassul & Istighatha" - Shaykh Hamza Yusuf - YouTube
     
  15. kiwimac

    kiwimac Brother Napalm of God's Love

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    I was under the impression that Wahabiyyah does not approve of Ijtihad.
     
  16. Sakeenah

    Sakeenah Well-Known Member

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    I really do not like the word wahabiyyah or wahabism...but if you mean the muslims who agree with muhammed ibn abdulwahaab in the creed issues. Then yes they do approve of Ijtihaad..but they believe only someone with knowledge such as an scholar can do Ijtihaad.

    assad91 I'm going to read your post and watch the lecture inshaAllah..and let you know what I think InshaAllah ..barakalahu feek
     
  17. kiwimac

    kiwimac Brother Napalm of God's Love

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    I understand you don't like the terms but they are the correct ones. They define a particular subset of the Hanbali madhab, a puritanical subset which clearly sees itself as the 'rightful' Islam and other Muslims as those who have added deviations to the pure faith.

    Unattributed quote from Source
     
  18. Assad91

    Assad91 Shi'ah Ali

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    Kiwimac, you list your religion as old catholic. Please be mindful this thread is in our DIR
     
  19. kiwimac

    kiwimac Brother Napalm of God's Love

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    Indeed, however I am a 35 year+ student of Islam. Nothing I have said has been derogatory of Islam or Muhammad. However I am critical of Wahabiyyah and especially it's use of force against other Muslims going so far as to accuse them of Shirk.
     
  20. Assad91

    Assad91 Shi'ah Ali

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    No doubt, and I would say you're correct. I mentioned such because I don't want to see you get in trouble. Maybe I can have the thread moved.
     
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