Motives of Charitable Acts

[Falvlun]

This is ignoring the point that I made. Assuming you have some irreducible sense of agency (free will), your reason will ALWAYS boil down to "I wanted to." I can question your reasons for wanting good publicity also. And eventually I will reduce you to circularity or "I wanted to."

That doesn't make sense. You state that it all boils down to "I wanted to", but that is not in fact the case.

"I want to" is just the first part-- the surface of the reason, and not the essence, as your statement "it boils down to" would suggest.

We want to do things due to specific reasons, multiple layers of reasons that we weigh against each other until the scale tips in favor of one action.

Saying "I wanted to" is the reason for all action only begs the question of "Well, why did you want to?"

 

[Kilgore Trout]

To say "he got something out of it" - feeling good about himself - is being cynical to a fault. I've met many a person who feel good about themselves when they get one over on you. There has to something that motivates you to act, and if that something is maintaining the integrity of your self image, and nothing else, and that self image is of a kind, empathetic person, I know of no "higher" motive.

Observing that he "got something out of it" is only cynical, if one judges it to be negative. You're the one making the judgment that it's bad - you're the one being cynical. I don't judge it so - I simply made a non-judgmental observation.

 

[Jackytar]

Observing that he "got something out of it" is only cynical, if one judges it to be negative. You're the one making the judgment that it's bad - you're the one being cynical. I don't judge it so - I simply made a non-judgmental observation.

Fair enough.

We are both being "cynical" when we point out that even acts of seemingly unblemished charity can be reduced to self-interest. I thought it would be helpful to point out that self-interest is not a bad thing when considering the complexities of the moral sense. I didn't for a minute think that you would disagree or be unfamiliar with this. I was attempting to expand on what you and others wrote, not refute it. I made a general response not directed at you, but by quoting your words in the body of my post (because it was the last thing I read and because you generally write with clarity) - I can see how you would take offense and I apologise for that.

Jackytar

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Fair enough.

We are both being "cynical" when we point out that even acts of seemingly unblemished charity can be reduced to self-interest. I thought it would be helpful to point out that self-interest is not a bad thing when considering the complexities of the moral sense. I didn't for a minute think that you would disagree or be unfamiliar with this. I was attempting to expand on what you and others wrote, not refute it. I made a general response not directed at you, but by quoting your words in the body of my post (because it was the last thing I read and because you generally write with clarity) - I can see how you would take offense and I apologise for that.

Jackytar

No big deal. I simply misinterpreted/misunderstood the entirety of your post. I understand what you were getting at now.

 

[rojse]

But it seems to be the entirety of it.
Why did you want good publicity?

Lots of reasons, depending on the situation and person. A business wants to outlay a small amount of cash in exchange for improved public opinion and cheap advertising, for example.

Why do you want money?

Lots of reasons, depending on the situation and person. Food. Rent. Entertainment. Alcohol. Education.

Assuming we have free will, we can't tie an answer back to a physical entity. Eventually you are just left with "because" or I wanted to.

"Because" explains nothing, though. "I wanted to" is only slightly better.

Even if we have free will, we have reasons for performing the actions we do. We usually react in a manner that we see as being more advantageous to ourselves than another route. There are also situations where we will react based on instinct, or based upon the amount and type of chemicals present in our bodies. I am sure there are many other explanations to explain why we perform the actions that we do, that go far beyond a mere "because".

 

[yossarian22]

Saying "I wanted to" is the reason for all action only begs the question of "Well, why did you want to?"

And why did you want whatever your reason was. Why is happiness something desirable (other than definitionally). Any value system is ultimately reduced to I wanted to and no other reason unless you tie yourself down to a physical reason. The moment you do that you no longer have free will (which makes talking about motivation ultimately pointless).

 

[Falvlun]

And why did you want whatever your reason was. Why is happiness something desirable (other than definitionally). Any value system is ultimately reduced to I wanted to and no other reason unless you tie yourself down to a physical reason. The moment you do that you no longer have free will (which makes talking about motivation ultimately pointless).

You are adding an extra unnecessary "I wanted to."

I wanted to donate that money to charity, because it makes me look good, because I wanted to.

Or perhaps we could just keep it going:
I wanted to donate that money to charity, because it makes me look good, because I wanted to, because it makes me look good, because I wanted to, because it makes me look good.

It's absurd. It just makes a loop. Only go through the loop once. "I wanted to give that money to charity, because it makes me look good." It makes more sense, and doesn't create an uneccessary loop.

 

[blackout]

Some people want to do a thing.
(as personal reason/inspiration gives rise)
Some people feel they "should" do a thing.
(because it's right... or expected... a duty/responsibility)
Some people feel they must/'have to' do a thing.
(to fulfil some role... or accomplish some end... or avoid punishment)
Some people just do things to follow suit.
(because everyone else does... that's how it is...it's what people do)

Some people do things with self in mind.
Some people do things with other in mind.
Some both.
Some neither.
Some people do things with/in the mind of All.
Some from a state of no'thing'ness.
(though I would say this is less frequent)

 

[Autodidact]

Does the motive behind a compassionate or charitable act matter at all?

If the motive behind such an act does matter, who does it matter to, and why?

The Jews have raised analysis of charitable acts to an art form. IIRC Maimonides set out the 8 steps of Tzedakah (roughly analogous to charity, but more of a duty) and placed the action above the motive, because it is more beneficial to the recipient. That is, giving a large amount, grudgingly, is higher on the scale than giving a small amount freely. [Is that right? A more educated Jew than I will soon happen along and correct me.]

 

[Falvlun]

The Jews have raised analysis of charitable acts to an art form. IIRC Maimonides set out the 8 steps of Tzedakah (roughly analogous to charity, but more of a duty) and placed the action above the motive, because it is more beneficial to the recipient. That is, giving a large amount, grudgingly, is higher on the scale than giving a small amount freely. [Is that right? A more educated Jew than I will soon happen along and correct me.]

Ugh.

That just seems wrong to me. I can't explain it, logically. I mean, it makes sense that the more people you help, regardless of your motive, the better off they are. But I just can't shake the feeling that a good motive (or at least, a trying-to-be-good motive) holds more weight.

We've all heard that the end doesn't justify the means. Can't that be consistently broadened to include motives?

 

[Autodidact]

Ugh.

That just seems wrong to me. I can't explain it, logically. I mean, it makes sense that the more people you help, regardless of your motive, the better off they are. But I just can't shake the feeling that a good motive (or at least, a trying-to-be-good motive) holds more weight.

We've all heard that the end doesn't justify the means. Can't that be consistently broadened to include motives?

Well they're all low on the scale. The highest form of Tzedakah is helping someone to become independent so they don't need your help, and can help others. Does that make you feel better?

Judaism does tend to emphasize practice over faith. It's theoretically possible to be a good Jew and an atheist, if (for some bizarre reason) you followed all the commandments. In fact I think I have a friend who lives like this.

 

[blackout]

A dad in McDonalds today gave his kid the loose change from their purchase
to put in some charity box they had on the counter.
He said to his son... "There, you can feel better about yourself now"
and patted him on the back.
I was like *ok* :areyoucra
and I thought of this thread. lol

 

[rojse]

A dad in McDonalds today gave his kid the loose change from their purchase
to put in some charity box they had on the counter.
He said to his son... "There, you can feel better about yourself now"
and patted him on the back.
I was like *ok* :areyoucra
and I thought of this thread. lol

An appropriate addition, I think.

Why the child was supposed to feel better about himself, or why the adult thought that the child would feel better about himself, I have no idea.

 

[blackout]

An appropriate addition, I think.

Why the child was supposed to feel better about himself, or why the adult thought that the child would feel better about himself, I have no idea.

What then?

None of my other additions were appropriate?:sarcastic





Yeah. It really was very weird.

 

[blackout]

Probably a lot of adults "give" to feel better about themselves.
To assuage guilt of having all they have maybe.

But what does putting a few coins in a box mean to a kid,
that it's gunna make him "feel any better about himself".
Still, Daddy is planting seeds of association.