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Mormons, a Sunday Morning Surprise!

Discussion in 'Comparative Religion' started by Ellen Brown, May 26, 2019.

  1. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    When I finally got up this morning, after I fixed my cup of weak, sweet, creamy scalding Coffee to help me breathe, I sat down at the Computer to see if the world still existed.

    I was so surprised to find a group of Mormon women on Facebook, complaining about being treated poorly by men in authority in the Church. A couple of these women, I know and their opinions were a great surprise to me.

    How odd to find this openly on Facebook. I can't imagine women being as disgruntled as some of them are and remaining with the church. The church and the members have been adept at stonewalling this sort of thing. I wonder if it will lead to much needed change?

    Stuff You Missed in Sunday School
     
  2. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    Then the history of this time is written, I have no doubt that one of the most important themes will be changes to the role of women in society. Those changes are not linear and easy, but change is happening and will continue to happen.
     
  3. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    I have great respect for the membership, though I do not understand why some persevere in the face of what the leadership does to them. The Leaders need to be confronted by God...
     
  4. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    I just took a quick look at that page to see which leaders were quoted, what they said and when they said it. They're direct quotes, so obviously they were made. Still, I grew up in the Church (for 70 years, actually) and I really didn't find that kind of language all that pervasive. It cropped up from time to time, but I guess I just never focused on it. Fortunately, I was raised by parents who were kind of atypical. Had I even raised those issues to them (which I didn't), I have no doubt but that they would have told me never to feel pigeonholed into a life I wasn't comfortable with just because I was born female. I'll admit there were times when these extreme teachings bothered me. When my husband and I got married and deciding to postpone having children for over 9 years, I remember feeling judged by a lot of other women in the Church (never by my parents, though), and when I continued to have a career after my two kids were born, I also took a bit of flack. Interestingly, though, I felt the disapproval from my peers and not from anybody in a leadership position, certainly not from men.

    As to why I stay... I still believe the core doctrines of the Church. When I think back over all the years I've spent in the Church, I realize that the doctrines I believe (i.e. the nature of God, God the Father's relationship to His Son, Jesus Christ, the idea of a pre-mortal life, a life where our best is expected of us but where we don't have to worry about being perfect, a post-mortal Spirit World where those who never heard the gospel on earth will still have a chance to accept it, a heaven which is ultimately large enough to be an eternal home for virtually everyone who has ever lived. No other church teaches the doctrines that have literally made me who I am today. These are eternal doctrines; they're not going to change over time. Policies are going to change continually, just as society changes continuously. Different things are going to be emphasized over the period of anyone's life, and the attitudes of people like me are going to slowly but surely influence the way the Church operates. As younger men are called to the highest leadership positions, that's going to help, too. But if we all bailed because of the things we didn't like, eventually the Church would cease to exist. The Church isn't just Boyd K. Packer or Spencer W. Kimball's church; it's also my church and their attitudes aren't going to push me away.

    One final thought -- kind of to re-emphasize how I started my response. Maybe that Facebook page is called "Stuff You Missed in Sunday School" because the quotes found on the page were never the focus on the gospel. I might have heard one of those quotes on occasion (doubtless, I did), but they were more than offset by everything else I was taught. I learned to zero in on the 99% of what I was taught in Sunday School and just brush off the 1% that would have messed up my life had I taken it too seriously.
     
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  5. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    Apparently there was some sort of Facebook hacking going on? The owner of that page did not know what was going on. The individual that I know, who made comments is a long time, very old member. I experienced some of what was being talked about but I don't blame the church for it. The individuals who were controlling and mildly abusive were trying to exercise 'Unrighteous Dominion'.

    I'm not going to go into the whole schtick. I only regret that I did not respond to them with considerable more vehemence. Of the local members, almost all were sweet and kind. I was surprised to find that the Bible was not viewed as having as much authority as the other Mormon Documents, and the word of the Prophet could overrule it.

    As for me, at the time, I felt that Joseph Smith was simply God speaking as he did through Muhammad PBUH, and Jesus before that. Polygamy was not a surprise to me because I was Muslim at the time. Later, after reading Jacob Chapter 2, I wondered what was up? Not many know that in Islam, Allah SWT first said that man would have one wife, but when Muhammad PBUH pleaded with him, he finally relented and allowed 2 or 3 with some stringent provisions. Allah's first choice was ONE wife. That is why it seems so bizarre to me that some Mormons would have far more than 3 wives. I am so glad that the practice is gone now.

    I had a conversation with an "Old Guard", Utah Mormon who insisted that one could not get to the Celestial Kingdom unless Polygamy was practiced. I suspect that is not present day Church Doctrine.
     
  6. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Actually, while some people in the church clearly believe that the Bible has less authority than other LDS scripture, they'd have a very hard time finding an official statement to that effect. True, The Book of Mormon has been described as "the most correct book" but this is solely because the Bible has undergone so many translations and clearly contains an incomplete record of Jesus' ministry. I have also seen the Bible described as "first and foremost among the Standard Works of the Church."

    It's time for that "Old Guard" to retire. ;)
     
  7. Prestor John

    Prestor John Well-Known Member

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    Women complaining about men and men complaining about women are not new phenomenons known only to members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
     
  8. Watchmen

    Watchmen Well-Known Member
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    Nice deflection.
     
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  9. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    I know how women are portrayed in the Bible, there is the books of Esther and Ruth, women of faith such as Mary and the gospel of Luke which is like the Lady's Home Journal of the Gospels

    In contrast how are women portrayed in the book of Mormon? Some say one element of the Book of Mormon that is troubling to some modern readers is that it rarely mentions women. 6 in the book of mormon compared to 170 in the Bible, Deborah the warrior, Esther who saved her people, Mary who was 'the handmaiden of the Lord and mother of Messiah, Ruth the gentile who chose to follow God.
     
    #9 whirlingmerc, Nov 9, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019
  10. Jane.Doe

    Jane.Doe Active Member

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    The number count of people mentioned in a book doesn't really convey much as to how a group/subject is approached. Comparing the counts between two different books when the books are of radicaly different length and vary drastically on the sheer number of people mentioned really doesn't mean much.
     
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  11. JesusKnowsYou

    JesusKnowsYou Member

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    The Book of Mormon does mention the Lord Jesus Christ more than the Bible does.

    Maybe that's why it's considered to be another testimony of Jesus Christ rather than a book about ancient women.
     
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