mormonism racist?

[rojse]

Whatever. How many Abrahamic religions have prophets that are explicitly racist in the modern sense (as opposed to merely xenophobic), Mormonism is one of the clear exceptions.

Regardless of the content of the book, it is not necessarily indicative of how Mormons are today. And I believe that there were quite a few examples of Mormon behaviour being quite ahead of their time in regards to racism.

Like every other religion it bears the marks of the culture from which it sprung, few cultures were more racist than that of 19th century America.

The Bible smacks of sexism and xenophobia, neither of which are any more admirable than racism.

 

[Katzpur]

Whatever. How many Abrahamic religions have prophets that are explicitly racist in the modern sense...

How many Abrahamic religions have prophets, Einstein?

 

[Watchmen]

Black men held the priesthood when Joseph Smith was prophet. This is documented.

Mormons were abolitionists - that's one of the primary reasons they had so much trouble in Missouri.

Is no one as interested in these facts as I am?

 

[Katzpur]

Is no one as interested in these facts as I am?

Probably not, Watchmen. They contradict the religious bigotry expressed in the OP, and appear therefore to be irrelevant.

 

[Sola'lor]

Wow. This is one of those same old same old claims. Maybe if I had more hours in my life I would post a better response but I have more pressing matters.

Mormonism is not racist.

 

[rojse]

Probably not, Watchmen. They contradict the religious bigotry expressed in the OP, and appear therefore to be irrelevant.

That's not fair on everyone posting here, Katzpur.

I must admit that is true of several posters, certainly.

 

[Katzpur]

That's not fair on everyone posting here, Katzpur.

I know it's not, rojse. That's why I specifically stated "the religious bigotry expressed in the OP." I believe the author of the OP was extremely bigoted and it was specifically to him that I was referring. My apologies to you and everyone else my comment may have offended. I realize that opposing points of view are not necessarily bigoted.

By the way, I wanted to start a new thread on this topic. It's such a controversial one and I wanted to just start out by expressing my understanding of the topic without being backed into a corner by some jerk who just wants to pick a fight. It's my intention to present the facts as honestly and thoroughly as I am able. It may be a day or so before I get around to it, though, as it's going to take some time and research.

 

[Shahzad]

Regardless of the content of the book, it is not necessarily indicative of how Mormons are today. And I believe that there were quite a few examples of Mormon behaviour being quite ahead of their time in regards to racism.

Nobody said it was indicative of modern Mormons.

] How many Abrahamic religions have prophets, Einstein?

I should have said have had prophets, I didn't mean they still have them.

 

[rojse]

I tend these excerpts from the OP:

hey guys, there is good news for those filthy native americans. Before many generations pass, Native Americans will convert to Mormonism, their skins will turn white, and they will become a "delightsome" people.

here are some facts to go with this.

in 1954 the us supreme court desegregated all our public schools

in 1964 we had civil rights laws giving full equality to black americans

it wasnt till 1978 that the mormon church allowed blacks to participate fully. the headline read this "MORMON CHURCH DISSOLVES BLACK BIAS" "citing new revelation from god, the president of the mormon church decreed that for the first time black males could fully participate in church rites"

The Book of Mormon is black and white about skin color. White skin is good and "delightsome"; black skin is bad and "loathsome". In fact, God created dark skin just to punish people for their bad behavior.

But then, that might not be such a bad thing. You'll be loathsome, filthy, lazy, and abominable to God, but you'll get a nice, safe tan out of it!

It's disgusting that you even try to defend these sort of comments. You use poorly-researched past history and partial excerpts from the Book of Mormon to try and support your bigotedness towards Mormons.

 

[Shahzad]

Whilst the OPs manner was less than diplomatic and rather abrasive, there's nothing factually incorrect in highlighting racism in Mormon scriptures. I've no idea why you're so offended on Mormonism's behalf.

Here's rather hilarious example of Mormon racism.

I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today as against that of only fifteen years ago....they are fast becoming a white and delightsome people....they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised. In this picture of the twenty Lamanite missionaries, fifteen of the twenty were as light as Anglos;...The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation....There was the doctor in a Utah city who for two years had had an Indian boy in his home who stated that he was some shades lighter than the younger brother just coming into the program from the reservation. These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness. One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated....today the dark clouds are dissipating.

Spencer W. Kimball, who ironically gave the revelation allowing blacks into the priesthood.

 

[Watchmen]

Shahzad, perhaps you would like to talk about the fact of blacks holding the priesthood during Joseph Smith's time and the fact that Mormons were abolitionists.

 

[ayani]

after reading comments and views such as that from respected and revered Mormon leaders (in this case a prophet), it's hard to not see clear bias in there in favor of light-skinned people.

i'm not trying to argue that Mormonism has been or intended to be maliciously racist from the beginning. but looking at comments like that, especially coming from heads of the church, it's hard to feel neutral about it.

i know, this quote and many similar ones aren't found in the BoM or D&C. but they make up part of a greater oral or extra-scriptural tradition within Mormonism, which can color how others view the church, or effect how the church is asked to explain or defend itself with curious non-Mormons.

 

[Sola'lor]

Well white is a symbol of purity. I've never seen someone temple clothes come in the color black. Of course many people wear black suits in church.

 

[Autodidact]

Is no one as interested in these facts as I am?

As I pointed out yesterday, your second assertion is so incomplete as to be misleading. Some Mormons were abolitionists some of the time, including Smith who was, except when he wasn't. Slavery was enacted in Utah in 1850.

 

[Autodidact]

I would say that historic Mormonism, including the BoM, is not strikingly racist as a record of 19th century American thought. Considered in that context, it's only mildly racist. Of course, that also means it's not of divine origin, which would not suffer from those constraints.

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

after reading comments and views such as that from respected and revered Mormon leaders (in this case a prophet), it's hard to not see clear bias in there in favor of light-skinned people.

i'm not trying to argue that Mormonism has been or intended to be maliciously racist from the beginning. but looking at comments like that, especially coming from heads of the church, it's hard to feel neutral about it.

i know, this quote and many similar ones aren't found in the BoM or D&C. but they make up part of a greater oral or extra-scriptural tradition within Mormonism, which can color how others view the church, or effect how the church is asked to explain or defend itself with curious non-Mormons.

Very well said. That's about how I see it. There was, for whatever reason, a ban on blacks holding the priesthood. And a lot of LDS thought that meant black was inferior. This is not true, but I know there were at least a few people who were mad when the church lifted the ban. Of course, such people were not really living the gospel very well. I can see why people would be upset with us. We really had some problems.

 

[Autodidact]

btw, OP, the Bible clearly and unequivocally endorses and permits slavery, so when it comes to American treatment of people of African descent, I think mainstream Christianity has more to answer for than Mormonism.

 

[Enoch07]

btw, OP, the Bible clearly and unequivocally endorses and permits slavery, so when it comes to American treatment of people of African descent, I think mainstream Christianity has more to answer for than Mormonism.

Even the Christians in the north that did not own or believe in owning slaves? A lot participated in the Underground Railroad and otherwise helped to end slavery in whatever way they could. You cannot blame Christianity as a whole when you have some Christians using slavery, and some adamantly against it. You can only look to blame the slave owners and define them that way. Not define them as Christian.

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

Even the Christians in the north that did not own or believe in owning slaves? A lot participated in the Underground Railroad and otherwise helped to end slavery in whatever way they could. You cannot blame Christianity as a whole when you have some Christians using slavery, and some adamantly against it. You can only look to blame the slave owners and define them that way. Not define them as Christian.

I think she was referring more to the Old Testament. But you're right. You can't blame a whole group for the actions of some. That is something we all need to learn.

 

[Shahzad]

The point is not whether Mormonism made some concessions on the race issue before 1978, there's nothing remarkable about that. The point is Mormonism as a faith contains explicit racism in it's scriptures and the teachings of it's prophets. The evidence regarding that is too great to be obfuscated away.